so you not only need to find the two men

that you can be fully safe with

and celebrate your victories

but you need to be one of those men for other people

too that is where real fulfillment is

it isn't actually that service to other people

I think oh Sean

yeah you're giving me chill

Sean couldn't be more true

because

you're describing the very essence of brotherhood

yeah that we've got disconnected from

yes that's what brotherhood is

welcome back to raising men

now we often talk about the legacy

that we want to leave for our sons

the values the skills

the

the manual how to of being a man

but there is a silent legacy many of us carry

which is the habit of emotional shutdown

we've been taught that we're supposed to be stoic

and we're supposed to not be emotional

data shows that 40% of young men

turn to no one for guidance

and frankly I think that understates the problem

because even older men are loath

to turn to people for guidance

why is that well

there are several reasons

but many of us

we're taught how to show up when things get messy

and we don't feel comfortable doing it

joining me today is Mike Elliott

Mike is a relational guide

who has walked through

the refining fire of two adoptions

and a divorce to find

a new way of leading at home

today we're talking about how to stop parenting

from the shadows Mike

thank you so much for being here

and welcome to raising men

Sean such an honor to be here

now we often talk about the provider role in

in masculinity and it's

you know I

I think a lot of people just think that the

the provider role or field of the provider role

is all about the paycheck

but

I've heard you argue that our most important provision

is the emotional safety that we create in our home

yeah

the metaphor that I like

and I'd love to get your response to this metaphor

I've used this metaphor on the show before

but I I like to use this metaphor about a castle

and our job as men in the family is to

to build and maintain that castle

and the way that we know and

and I think a lot of people

especially the traditional masculine role

it's about how strong the walls are

how strong is the castle um

when the barbarians are coming

can they actually get over the walls

and through the walls and

and that's part of it but

but it's actually more important

especially in this modern age

that the castle it encompasses as much area as possible

it's really

the way to measure the success of the castle

is about how much safety does it provide

how much of an area of safety

for the village let me get your response to that

and then

let's use that as an entree to talk about your work

and what you what you do

if we don't have emotional safety in our homes

the paycheck and how it is used is worthless

if there's walls

4 walls that are built around a whole group of people

and the relationships suck

like you're not gonna wanna be in those four walls

you're gonna wanna figure out how to get out

and actually go face the tiger

and the unpredictability of nature

if the relationships are toxic

distant disconnected

and I think all of us can feel that deep in our bones

because my experience is every human I've related with

has been impacted by North American culture

where there's a lot of disconnection

yeah I I have a friend who uh

when he grew up

he his father they would

they would go on a road trip

and the car would break down

or they'd have a flat tire or whatever

and he grew up uh

just feeling like the world was chaos

that you couldn't never do anything

you couldn't never go anywhere because just the

the world was going to just defeat you

and he grew up to be a mechanical engineer because his

his

his single most important desire in life was to get

to control that chaos and I think that's a microcosm

for what you are talking about here

yeah what I see

with so many of the male clients that I support

cause a lot of them have huge tangible material success

some of them millions of dollars

multiple properties they've got the status

but they've squeezed unconsciously

the life out of their home and out of their marriage

and often

have shown up really well for parenting and fathering

to not repeat what they experienced growing up

but

the relationship with the mother was really difficult

it was really hard and usually

when they show up in front of me and having the call

that's what they're there to learn

oh my God

like how do I actually lean into life

how do I lean into relationship and do that part well

because having all this money is pointless

if I don't have someone to share it with

you know it's almost like it

it feels like it should be easier

it it feels like if you make a lot of money

and you're very successful in that kind of worldly way

it feels like

you know what I mean you ought not fight about money

right you

you you have creature comforts

you can take vacations you can take time to

have those restorative periods in your relationship

but I'm not sure that beyond there

there's kind of a sweet spot

where it is a little bit easier

you're outside of just you know

scrambling paycheck to paycheck

and then but you're not like

like it seems like

a lot of really successful people

really struggle to make their home

lives a safe space why is that

and what should people do about it

with the majority of the clients that I've seen

what's happening is

there's a false sense of security with the money

because there's power with money

it's a tool it's a weapon

how it's used

determines the feeling of the person using it

so money is like a gun we can use it to intimidate

and push our power and dominate

or we can use it to bring food home for the village

you know go shoot an animal

feed the village yeah

what I'd say is

a lot of men weren't taught how to use their power

in a good way

they were taught dominance

they were taught that dad has lots

mum gets very little kids get very little

and they're actually all a burden

for what it is that dad's offering

and I'm just I'm generalizing

based off of the clients I've worked with

that's a common experience

yeah

and the thing about money that we need to understand is

there's a relationship to all things

there's a relationship to our thoughts

there's a relationship to our feelings

there's a relationship to our environment

there's a relationship to

in clients we serve there's a relationship to money

one we don't talk about enough

the thing with money is it doesn't talk back

money doesn't say how it feels in the relationship

and how it's being used

this is where the false sense of power comes from

because it's a bit of a

and I don't mean this as a judgment

I'm just saying to really bring this piece as

talking about just a real relationship

what is a relationship where the other person gets

doesn't get to have a say

in how the experience of the relationship is

we're talking about narcissism

and so what can unconsciously play out is

if there's unresolved wounding deep inside

which is just disconnected parts of ourselves

just parts that didn't feel loved and seen and heard

to integrate into I belong

I matter then those disconnected

parts of ourselves will start to drive the bus

and they'll pursue more money

cause they want to feel the power

to overcompensate for the

just human inadequacies and insecurities

shit I have so many are you like I

I have money

and I know that a driving force in my life has been

I don't wanna have to look at the parts of me

that feel weak I don't wanna look at the parts of me

that are embarrassed to share this

about myself or that about my body

or what I've done in past relationships

so I unconsciously want the power

to not have to look or feel those things

but it's a false sense of power

because what I've Learned over the years

doesn't matter how much money I have

I can't avoid the part of what's truly

I'd say a present day invitation

I can't avoid relating with life itself

and I can't avoid relating

with my relationship to life itself

how am I treating others

how am I using the money why am I chasing money

like what is it for is it

I'd say the healthiest expression of money is

it feels the best when we're in the energy of giving

so if we understand that money is a vehicle

to express our divinity

which is our generosity as a human being

sharing and expressing the essence of our heart

which is where do we want to give

what is meaningful to us if we aren't embodying that

the money is absolutely worthless

it worthless

and it's actually deepening our insecurities

because we think a certain number

at some point will solve the part uh

that is missing

and it's that satiation of being a generous human being

because that's what connection looks like

yeah I

I I wanna

I wanna drill into that a little bit and

but there's something that you touched on a moment ago

that I definitely want to um

uh

to speak more deeply about

and that is um

the the

the initiation that we undergo or don't undergo

and I have a hypothesis that

well it's not even a hypothesis

it's an observation

that there used to be institutions in our culture

that helped to provide

that initiation of of turning boys into men

and as our culture has modernized

those institutions have gone away

and that's a problem and it's an opportunity

and the problem is that the

the institutions aren't there

so the initiation doesn't happen by default

the opportunity is that we can now

craft those initiations ourselves

talk to me about

how you think about the problem of initiation and

you know what's going on there and then

you know of course what do we do about that

the first problem is

most of us don't even know what the heck initiation is

we don't yeah

we don't miss it we don't even know what it is

so we don't even know to have the conversation

in most of humanity as men

we're like often when I say

you know

I've created a program called the Initiated Man

and often the first question is what is initiated

what is an initiated man what does that even look like

first we need for anyone listening

I want to explain what initiation is

on its simplest form

it's pressure intention that squeezes a

a being from a boy from adolescence into manhood

tension and pressure

that squeezes a boy from adolescence into manhood

like an ancient it's yeah

yeah and in ancient culture

I wanna root there because

I think there's something that men feel in their bodies

when they hear this because there's just a

there's something in our genes

that don't get forgotten

the switches just haven't been turned on

so I'm gonna help hopefully turn some switches on here

in healthy cultures back in the day

initiation looked like this

little boys would be in proximity to men and refined

through their early dependent phases

men would slowly bridge them into life

and entice them away from their mother

little boys will naturally want to just

stay merged with their mother

because why the hell wouldn't you

I think a lot of men can resonate it's like oh yeah

big soft beautiful breasts there

soft hair

and the skin and the touching and the reassurance

and like who doesn't who wants to leave that

it feels so good it's like a nice warm fluffy bed yeah

it's like exactly why would you ever want to leave that

yeah so

the role in healthy cultures back in the day is

men knew that it was their job to entice them

not tear them apart

but entice them away from the mother

to show them what it

how exciting it is over here to be in life

and so they would slowly entice them into

becoming more capable and strong to deal with life

which is ooh I wanna go play with the swords and ooh

I wanna wrestle

and they would activate through pressure and tension

their edges where it would be a bit scary

but exciting

and then once they hit their cap and their edge

they would run back to mom

and get all the comfort and the consoling

and then it would integrate

it's one of the key ingredients is

initiation always needs the

in the the

the coming home to allow it to integrate

then it turns into more strength and resilience

hmm yes

has to be it's like

it's like sleep it's restorative

and if you don't get that restorative then

then it or or

or the rest after a workout

like you do a bunch of bench presses

and you better not do them the next day

cause you need your your muscles to repair

that's it exactly

yeah and that's the same as the development of a man

we need our rest periods

we need the mother to be resourced and doing her thing

so she can hold and comfort the little boy

as he's evolving up to man

okay so if that happens really well great

then there becomes a point

and it's not age specific

where the men

who've been training and mentoring these boys

towards manhood they get a sense

and a feeling from their connection to themselves

and they would

they would you know

have a conversation with each other and they would say

hey I think little Johnny's ready

I think it's time for his initiation

like we've

he's got the tools he's got the skills

he's like pushing his edges

he's ripe like the testosterone's there

we got like we

let's set it up

what they would then do is they would attune to that

being that boy for his readiness

not before he's ready

when he's ready and then what they would do is

they would set an environment

and give him the guidance of like

hey Johnny

you're gonna go out now into the wild on your own

without us

and you're gonna go

and your task and your mission is bring home meat

and they would go off and on their own

and it would be the first time

where they're now tested in their capabilities

they were mentored into

and they would go and they would face danger

the fears the insecurities

the not being able to lean into the men

who've always been there up to that point

and they would touch

the most frightening parts of themselves

and some close to death and they would persevere

and finish the task of kill the animal

bring home the meat and what the village would do is

they would sit around the fire

waiting for this moment and the second

the little boy would come down from the mountain

with the meat with the wounds

the scars whatever is there

they would start singing beating drums and welcoming

god makes me emotional every time I speak to this part

because this is what cultures missed

and they would welcome him back

and then he would walk back

join the circle

and the entire rest of the evening would be space

held for him to share what was experienced

in the pressure and the tension of

touching all those terrifying places of himself

and life and then him getting to feel his power

after being so afraid and the cortisol

the adrenaline and being welcomed back

is what creates the integration

and refines that boy into man

and he will never be the same after that day

we haven't had that in culture

we've been stripped from that

we've forgotten it

and most of us grew up with very absent fathers

or fathers that were on the mission

but they didn't know how to do the welcoming back

or to set up a certain you know

experience that is relational

to guide that boy into those places of himself

so that he could welcome back and honor him

that now he's a man and yes

there's gonna be forever work

but I'd say right now the pain that we're dealing with

so many little boys haven't had this

and so now and I'm speaking for myself here

I actually went to have my own initiation experience

and I've been a part of men's work for 10 years

and it's the thing that has changed my life

by growing me up

and this is what I'd say men are hungry for

but they don't even know that they need it

I I

I can totally agree with that

because even just hearing you describe the process and

I mean

and you you

you mentioned that it's like a

it's like a switch in our DNA or something

I I hunger for that experience as well and

and I I

I totally I totally get that because

you know I'm

I'm one of those people I never got to experience that

I I or

or at least

I didn't experience it in any kind of holistic way

right I experienced in drips and drabs in other places

but there are definitely parts of me that

that still need that

yeah and I'd say

and honoring you for naming that

and touching that part of yourself

cause that's we all need that

I've needed that like yeah man

I got separated from my mother

and then my biological grandmother

at the age of 14 months so two severances from uh the

the my sense of safety

mother energy in the role of mother

is to create the feeling of safety in our body

just like the story I described

the thing that creates

the strength in the nervous system

is that they were well

the boy was welcomed back into the village

and held and seen and felt and emoted with

that's what integrated into the strength

and the capacity so many men

and I wanna if you're a man listening to this

I wanna celebrate and honor you

because here you are listening to a podcast

wanting to learn and to grow

and there's so many men that I end up working with

they're not lacking wanting to show up

they're not lacking the trying really hard

they're not lacking the information

but the information isn't translating to

the integration

it's not translating into walking into the home

and having the actual tone and capacity

to welcome their partner's upset

their forever changing emotions

without losing his footing

without trying to fix it solve it

defend it just dissociate from it

withdraw try to run away

and that's just the sign initiation is needed

it only happens the in in the initiation

and initiation is returning back to the most

true medicines of man and that is brotherhood

initiation happens in proximity to other men

that have been initiated this isn't a hierarchy

it's just honouring nature

if we don't get the information

or the toolkit handed down from our fathers

well then

we need to take responsibility for our own lives

as men which is why I created the Initiated Man

I've set the culture where this can happen

you come into the environment

and you let the environment initiate

it's not for more information

and I've been there 13 years of mental masturbation

listening to all the podcast

reading all the books and I got weaker and weaker

and then that's what LED to my divorce

I realized it wasn't in the paycheck

I realized it wasn't in knowing more

that didn't help me show up as a man

to hold space for my partner

I unconsciously just disconnected from her

day after day week after week

month after month and it wasn't until I realized shit

what I believed what I adopted in my mind

which is when I have more money

I'll have more power when I have more power

I'll be loved I'll be good enough

she will give me her soft

gentle feminine that I'm longing for

uh huh it was a delusion

it was

I had to turn deep within my own experience and face

where I'm still a little boy in there

learn how to then initiate that part up

into becoming a man but not from information

from experience

from other men that knew how to guide me through it

yeah it's almost like the

the information is counterproductive at a point um

because it gives you an excuse to just stay there

and read more stuff and listen to more podcasts

but that's not action that's just getting you're

you're probably getting smarter

but you're not actually doing the thing and

and so yeah

you use the term mental masturbation

that's all it is if you don't turn it into action and

and yeah

and and

and

the initiation gives you a way to turn it into action

it and it gives you a way to learn it without

I mean it's

it's better

it's better and let me

it's and

and just to use this

I think we can all relate to as men

if we masturbate every day

and we're ejaculating every day

guess what happens

we do get weaker cause we're exhausting our life energy

our life force

I think every man can feel that there's a place

I don't know maybe I'm going TMI here

but in my past

there was a place where I would self soothe

through masturbation and porn

that was a way I was coping with all the distress

I didn't even know I had inside

yeah and what started to happen is that fuck

I couldn't even get an erection

it was just like I was just exhausting my energy

I didn't realize that so I needed more stimulation

more exotic porn to look at and it was so defeating

but I didn't know because I wasn't initiated

dad didn't model this show me how to harness my power

and so I just kept exhausting it until I realized

in proximity to a man

who brought me into understanding all these places

showing me how to re access my power

well it's only in that point

where I started to really get it like

oh okay

this isn't just about feeling good right now

for some sort of you know

immediate gratification

I'm being invited to go deep within myself

to find my power

and to bring it to life in a way that's contained

that's responsible

because if I can do that

I will be received well in the power

this is what leadership is

and I wanna I wanna really

you know for those of you listening

I want this to land because a lot of men

are wondering what is leadership

leadership

in the way that I like to describe it with clients

is true

leadership that's embodied and connected to real life

is a man that is so clear in the direction

that he's going that the environment he creates

around his very presence is nourishing

to himself

and to everyone around him

that's leadership and when we yeah

when we embody that which for anyone who's listening

embodiment

means just showing up in the behaviors that match

the thought the actions that create this environment

that's embodiment that

the report card is the environment around me as well

that's embodiment that's where the feedback is

not just matching some idea or belief we have

the feedback is everyone's having a good time here

my wife is happy my kids are enjoying me

wow they light up

they smile at me when I approach

and they wanna jump up in the

my 4 year old son wants to jump up in my arms

that shows me I'm in a level of embodiment

in that moment and when I'm not embodied

an example would be I'm sitting at my computer

I didn't take the breaks to move my body

to connect to nature and I show up

after six hours of just being in front of a screen

and I walk in and I'm exhausted

I'm drained and I'm irritable

that would be a disembodiment

I've over exhausted and I wanna tie this into the

the mental piece the mental masturbation

is where we feed too much of the mental

to be a fully healthy human being in man

we need to make sure that we are nurturing our body

mind and spirit in a way that keeps us well

if we go too much mind we're actually leaving our body

this is what leads to reactivity

this is what leads to us wanting to self soothe

with substances and porn

and doom scrolling

it's actually the real life feedback saying

I've fed too much mental and I'm out of balance

I am disconnected to my own nature

I'm not in my body that's dangerous

it's a reverse initiation

it's a reverse injury yes

and the the phrase that I love to lean into here

that I've watched this evidence is true

is a man who is too heavily weighted in body

mind or spirit let's say mental here

that's an under resourced man

what is what is under resource

resource is there isn't enough energy

going to all the different categories

that keeps everything working in harmony

that's balance

so if we have an under resourced man

we have a dangerous man hmm

if we have an under resourced man

we have a dangerous man

and this is what's creating unsafety in homes in

in culture in society

because an under resourced man is a disconnected man

and a disconnected man will do anything

to try to get back to connection

but he will do it in dangerous ways

because it's coming from fear

every news connection

I think we're seeing a lot of that in our culture today

yep yeah

what a power and I

one of the

one of the things that I've heard you talk about

that I think is really relevant to this is

is that

the home absorbs kind of the emotional climate of

of the parents and maybe even of

of the father in particular

but definitely of the parents

and

and so we owe it to ourselves and we owe it to our sons

and we owe it to the rest of our family

to bring an emotional climate that is healthy

because it's contagious in a sense

and whatever we're gonna be bringing is contagious

and so if we bring that healthy energy

and that healthy climate

then the family benefits from that

but if we bring a toxic climate

if we bring the self absorbed one

if we bring the disconnected climate

then um

then they're gonna be injured by it

hundred percent and

I just wanna speak to all the men that are listening

because one of the most common patterns that I see

in men that I've sat with for over 10 years

in circle

is there so much pressure and expectation to show up

well and to provide and to protect

so I wanna speak to all

it's not all your fault

and it's not all your job to reconstruct that home

and the environment of the home

we're just dealing with the impact of culture

and we're dealing with the impact of mum and dad

not knowing how to do relationship

this no one person is responsible here

and this is one of the things I'm really passionate

about because I see a lot of story and narrative

where women are blaming men

and men are blaming women

yeah that's child's play

we don't have time child's play

it's just it's not helpful

it's two toddlers fighting in the playground of

it's my toy and I don't want her having

it's just like it's just a waste of energy

it's not an adult way of relating yeah

so I'm calling that out it's no one's fault

it's our fault as as a culture as adults

we are here to learn about relationship well

because

if we just look at the report card of our culture

and the war and all the things

we're such an intelligent species

why the hell is there still war

that's insane we haven't Learned how to relate well

we're not playing well in the sandbox shit

we're on a planet that's hurling throughout our space

and we're all sharing it

and it's the only planet that we even know of

that has human life on it

which guess what

that makes this it makes it a damn home

and so we better learn how to be in the home well

and to do relationship well

I'm biased I'm a relationship expert

that's what I'm looking at

but if we don't learn how to relate well

and take responsibility for the places we're not

we aren't going to get what we're actually looking for

which is peace and harmony

and love and sense of belonging

and I'm enough so

mom and dad aren't even to blame

we're looking at a cultural thing

and we're looking at the impact of mom and dad

not doing mothering and fathering well

we're looking at a role

mother's role is to create the feeling and the safety

of a child's

for the feeling of safety in their body

and then in life that's the role

simplest form role of mother

role of father is

he brings Protection and order to things

the only way he can offer it is home

and is where he has it in his own life

which means in real life

we gotta look at our relationship to money

are we managing our money well

is it forever growing and expanding

do we have the resource to spill into the experience

in the home where everyone can feel the feeling of

we have we can yes

that experience let's do it together

oh you want that

well let's figure out a way creatively

where we can make that happen

let's work together yeah

this is the the order of a relationship to our body

which I watch a lot of men struggle with

and no shame here

but we're just looking at father wounding

if we weren't handed down Protection in order

from father and we weren't handed down

the feeling of safety in our body

guess what

we're kind of screwed

with the toolkit that we have to hand down

and we will unconsciously hand it down

that's just what we do 95% we're screwed

unless

we get intentional about making that stuff happen

ourselves which is why we're having this conversation

and which is why as a humanity

we need to understand the nature of initiation

which is as a whole we're being squeezed

I think we can all feel this exponential growth in AI

jobs being lost that's gonna squeeze any human being

cause

it's gonna hit the most primal parts of ourselves

so we're in it we're in the initiation

but remember the ingredient that creates

the integration of the initiation

it's being welcomed back into the community

so my invitation for anyone that's feeling the

oh my God I'm yeah

I Mike I just had a light bulb moment

I am screwed I didn't get that from my dad

I didn't get that from mum great

now as an adult

your responsibilities move towards the environment

to fully welcome you into your experience

so that you can integrate what's stuck in your body

and I'm gonna leverage here Dan Seigal's uh

work for anyone who needs to really the

speak to the mind here and leverage this

the brilliance of it and Dan

Seigal's work describes it in this way

our level of health is determined

based off of our capacity to integrate

our already lived life

and then another layer deeper on this

a level of health is predictable

based off of a person's parents

ability to describe their childhood

and make sense of it yeah and

what is so

what does that imply about

how we can instill health in our sons

it means that we need to we need to give them that

we need to give them the ability to integrate

we need to give them that

that welcoming back from the initiation

we need to give them that ability to

we need to give them childhood experiences

that they can then go later describe

that's right and

and the only and the time is now

like we're not it's not like

we can go back in time

and make sure that when he was seven

he could do that I

I need to do that now

that's right yeah

and the ultimate ingredient here in

in parenting isn't to be perfect

because a lot of men might be listening to this

and thinking to themselves shit

I gotta learn more about how to show up more yeah

more to do yeah

no no

no no

no no

don't go read another book

don't go listen to another podcast to figure

to add more pressure to the system

yeah and to have to do more

it's actually understanding what's

required for us to show up as parents well

and I'll think of you know

I'm thinking of my son right now

my forever focus is am I Mike

the father present in my own experience

because if I'm present with my own experience

guess what my son gets presents

it's the presence that it gives me

the ability to attune to what he needs

and meet him in his world

because I'm navigating and present in my own world

that's very different yeah

he's 4 his world's so different

so in the days where I do this well

I'm tending my body mind and spirit

as an example I'm

I'm going to my men's work

I'm doing the the

the work that I meant to be in service of

and that satiates me I'm connecting with nature

I'm moving my body I'm eating healthy

I'm managing my money

and then okay

I can just fully be present and I want to

some men might be thinking well

I still don't fully get presence

presence isn't doing more

and it's not performance based

it's letting go and shedding

all of the defense strategies

the fighting the defending

the avoiding that's preventing the presence

presence is what's underneath all of the performance

yeah and so when we get

struggle with this so mightily I I

it's my brain just wants

my reflex is to cast my mind out and into the future

mostly

um and I mean I

I I

I struggle with it so much yeah man and me too

this is why I devoted my whole life to it we all do

yeah and and I'd say some are stronger than others

and especially you know

people that came from healthy homes

they struggle there less

but I'm just gonna honor my own human experience

I'm probably gonna struggle with

this one for the rest of my life

which is why I've built the Initiated Man

which is why I go to men's work every Wednesday

which is why I'm constantly going through my own

internal initiations so that I can grow myself up

and give my son what I didn't get enough of

that's not a one and done thing

it's choosing a new way of being

and true health

is being super clear on who we're being in the doing

not just doing more

if we're not clearing who we're being in the doing

it's pointless

and so there's this place where I know for me

I wanna meet my son

and create this life where he reflects back of wow

my dad was so there my dad had a mission he made money

but he made time for me he came in every day

he worked on the land so that he was close and wow

he really got to know me as a as a individual

and he brought me into the experiences

that were different than his and

you know made sure that I did like

I want him to have that experience

but the only way I can do that

is if I am integrating my already lived life

making sense of my childhood

so I'm not unconsciously projecting

or perpetuating the same hurt

when I say perpetuate just repeating

just repeating

the same damage that I had happened to me yeah

not because I'm a victim it's just what happened

I have to go integrate that

so that I don't live in the pain of that

and just unconsciously

then beat him up emotionally or neglect him

and think that one day when I make enough money

I will buy a resource

where he can just have enough space

from all my dysfunction

and maybe he'll appreciate me for that

or how hard I worked he doesn't care how hard I work

that's right he cares whether I'm with him or not

but it only happens if I'm with myself

and so for anyone listening

what to do with this is where is

this is a question to ask

do you have at least two men in your life

where you feel so safe in yourself

you can expose all your deepest and darkest things

your struggles your insecurities

the shame the things you've done

do you have a place where you can do that

and then in that same place

can you go share with that man

all the things that you are celebrating

your power your strength

where you do rock it and he can uh

meet you in it without putting you down or judging you

and just like yeah

and build you up even more if you don't have that

you need it just gonna be blunt and real

and I wish somebody said to this

said this to me in my 20s

when I was a drug dealer and a debt collector

I wish somebody just came to me and said Mike

the men you're hanging around with yeah

it's it's bringing you to a dark place

because it's feeding the primal part of you right

the one that does just wanna fucking conquer and kill

yeah not helpful

you need to be around men that are in there

they learn

they have Learned how to harness that their power

they're not just soft

and just passively watching life go by

they're learning how to integrate

the gentle part of them

which is the tenderness of their human heart

and they're on mission

and they know how to get shit done

go find those men

I wish I heard that in my 20s and any man listening

I'm saying that to you now it's never too late

find the men

that refine you into the best version of yourself

because wired in the depths of our DNA is men

the energy that feels good is the energy of becoming

that is the very nature of masculinity

energy of becoming becoming more aware

expanding in consciousness

but also building and growing

we all know that feels good

but if we aren't doing it in a way that's integrated

that's connected into the feminine part which is being

then we create havoc in the world

then

there's another thing that comes to mind there for me

also which is there

one component of that is

finding the men who will help sharpen your saw right

is the way that I would put that but when you do that

it's

it's not like you have a sharpening stone and a saw

it's really more like

you have two rocks rubbing against each other

and they polish each other

because you're gonna be that resource for that person

too

and so you not only need to find the two men that

that you can be fully safe with and and um uh

celebrate your victories

but you need to be one of those men for other people

too

and that that is that is where real fulfillment is

it isn't actually that service to other people

I think oh Sean yeah

you're giving me chill Sean

couldn't be more true because

you're describing the very essence of brotherhood yeah

that we've got disconnected from yes

that's what brotherhood is

that's what brotherhood is

and the what I like to describe it as is

it's relational reciprocity

you know if we deepen a relationship as men

I wanna make sure that you are

strong enough to call me out

and say Mike what you're doing

there's a pattern I see here it's bullshit

it's not matching what you say you wanna be or become

why are you avoiding doing this next task

why are you reacting with your partner like dude

you're better than that

let's get curious on what's happening there

because I'm not gonna let you use your power

in that way that's disconnecting you from your family

your home your kids your mission

who you're serving we need men that can hold that part

and I'm thinking one of my best buddies

Doctor Kevin Preston

love that man you know and we're that for each other

where the place where it's like

oh my God

I'm so afraid to be seen in the shadow part of me

the place where uh

I want this part of me that wants to take or this

you know

part of me that has these weird sexual desires

or whatever it is or oh my God

I'm just actually feeling really afraid and I'm

I just need to cry a whole bunch

but I've never been allowed to do that

we're that for each other

we're the safe place of dude bro

I got you I have so much I've got myself

I it doesn't matter how vulnerable scared

insecure you are

I'm just here with you I'm not gonna try to fix you

I'm not gonna try to solve this for you

I'm just gonna hold you bro like I'm right here

with you just reassuring

like it's so easy to be here with you and love you man

and then also

the part that's gonna call us up and forward

hey man you're here for a mission

let's stay clear on that hey

let's make sure that's happening

what are you doing what's your next step

you know it's that bringing the order to it

so there's the being part satiated

but also the becoming part satiated yeah

that's relational reciprocity

that's manhood that's brotherhood

fantastic now

I always like to end these conversations

with more or less the same question for everybody

so I'll put you on the spot

just like I do everybody else

which is

give me one principle that comes to mind when thinking

about how to raise a man of excellence

yeah I'm just gonna take a second here

take as long as you need

yeah

and just for anyone listening

why I am pausing right now is there's a golden rule

I live by connection before communication

connecting to myself

to feel what is true deep within me

and what comes up for me when I sit and listen

is really seeing my experience as a little boy

on the pathway to learning to become a man

and there was so much sensitivity

and every man that I've held up to this point

in my six month containers and all the work that I do

something that I have witnessed is the tenderness of a

man's heart

and what I think is the most important ingredient

in today's time is men just accepting

allowing

and embracing the tenderness of their own heart

so that they know how to hold the tenderness

of their little boy's heart

and if we do that well

we're gonna have powerful damn men in the world yeah

that are pioneering a way of being human

that's creating more safety

for the feminine part of life

the vulnerable part of life

where women get to become the mothers

they've always wanted to be

that they haven't been able to

cause it hasn't been enough safety

what a powerful statement

I I I'm gonna need to sit with that

there is a lot there and I I

I just can't tell you Mike

how much I appreciate you sharing

your point of view here

your wisdom and and your passion for this subject

it has been an absolute delight

chatting with you today and I

I hope we can do more of it

yeah man such a gift

getting chills and deep appreciation

for the work you're putting out in the world

to this conversation to all the men listening

learning growing becoming just keep going man

it's uh it's an honor to keep walking this path

and if there's anyone I just wanna spitfire

if there's anyone who resonates with this

you know

there's a way you can follow and join you know

this pathway of becoming an initiated man

if you go on the school community s k o o l

look for initiated man it just launched this week

it's in its beginning stages

and we are going to be experiencing and building out

the culture I've talked about today

so that you can be initiated and become a man

and if it's not me trust yourself

and move towards where you feel resonance and safe

because that's the thing that will bring you home

and the link for that is in the show notes

so definitely check it out

that's a an unbelievable powerful um resource Mike

thanks again I

I I really appreciate it and I'll

I'll I'll see you over there on the initiated man

I'm gonna

I'm gonna go sign up right after we get done with this

yeah amazing

thanks Sean I appreciate you

thanks man and to everybody listening

thank you so much for for being part of this journey

please like and subscribe and

and if you got value out of this

definitely share it

uh with a friend that really really helps us grow

and remember you are a great parent

raising men is produced by Phil Hernandez

this episode was edited by Ralph Tolentino