we make the orders right

you know

we go in before anyone else and we see what's going on

on the ground and then we tell our higher UPS

this is what you have these other units do to succeed

and so that's what we do in our home

we allow our kids to have the ideas

yeah of the way things should look

and that accountability lies on us

welcome back to raising men

today's guest is somebody who's fought battles

most of us could never imagine

both on the battlefield and within himself

Aaron Blaine grew up fatherless

angry and lost he barely graduated high school

yet he went on to become a US Army Green Beret

one of the most elite warriors in the world

but it wasn't until after the military

that Aaron faced the toughest mission of all

learning how to heal how to lead

and how to become the father that he never had

he is the founder and CEO of Wild Ops Box

a powerful initiative

helping fathers and sons reconnect

through shared purpose and adventure

in this episode

we're gonna talk about the battles before

the battlefield what real strength looks like

and how a man can transform his pain into purpose Aaron

welcome to raising men

and thank you so much for joining us dude

thanks for having me you're you're

you got something really cool going

here I really appreciate that

thank you for saying that it's

it's absolutely an honor to get to know you

now you've described yourself

as a directionless and angry young man

I like to think that strong emotions like that

can either be a toxin or a tool

but you seem to have mastered turning it into a tool

tell me how you thought about that

and how that helped you

think about how to turn boys into men

yeah it's a great question

it's absolutely true um

you know growing up um

you know I think I experienced a

a lifetime of of trauma and disruption and chaos as a

as a young man

starting at the age of 11 when I lost my father and um

you know that sort of was the uh

the avalanche that um

buried me my brother

my mom and um

you know as painful as that was

um you know

I think I had the right people sort of around me

um you know

I come my dad has a really strong family lineage of

you know great

great men and um

you know luckily

I had a grandfather that was extremely supportive and

um you know

included my brother and I and everything

and um

you know there was this loss and sense of uh

you know it was a directionless uh

childhood um

in the sense of not having

a male figure in the household

and then having a mother

that was struggling with a lot of health issues

and

yeah

and there's just a whole gamut of things that sort of

all came to fruition at one time

and so you know

navigating that felt as if I was navigating it

sort of on my own for the most part yeah

um and um

essentially

my brother and I sort of just raised each other

we did our best but um

you know it came with a lot of challenges

I think I was blessed with um

you know a really strong will

uh from

from a young age and and wanting to succeed and um

understanding that there is sort of

a light at the end of the tunnel

but I needed to do the work first and um

seeking that and um

being on that journey for

for such a long time

it was just an incremental sort of a building blocks to

you know getting me to where I was and

and I'll say that it was really rough around the edges

and um

extremely challenging and um

and yeah

so I think for whatever it's worth the

the pain and the suffering and the

the loss um

was a catalyst for growth for me

and even if I didn't realize it at the time

that got me where I am today

and um

yeah and

and you know

people always say oh man

I'm really sorry this happened

and that must have been really hard

and at this point

I really couldn't tell you how else it would have

you know came through and um

and so I'm really grateful for

really how my life has turned out and how

you know especially my brother and I have um

you know broken through that threshold of

of growth and um

and really came out the other side

you know I've

I've spoken to a lot of people that have undergone um

some serious tragedy and it's

it's like it's like it's a pachinko machine and you

you end up in one of two slots

one of the slots is it ruins you

and the other slot is it turns you great

yeah and and in that latter case

almost always what the person says is

it was the most important

thing that ever happened to me

that's correct it

and it's it's almost like

they don't want to say they're glad it happened

because nobody's glad the horrible thing happened

but if it hadn't happened

I wouldn't be who I am today

and I I

I feel like that's an important lesson

about everything that can happen in your life

you get to choose whether

what it does to you

you get to choose how you react to the stimulus

true

and it's an active choice to help it propel you forward

yeah it's a consistent

active choice over a very long period of time

and what I'll say is that um

you know I

think it's super relevant to this podcast

and the content that you're putting out was

you know I had such a strong foundation from a

an excellent father um

and you know

some people will say you know

sorry for your loss sorry for your loss and

you know I lost him physically

but the lessons

and the foundation that was built for my brother

and I I think

was so strong

that my father really never did pass away

you know he

he lived with us and still lives in me big time

and that's really helped to propel me forward uh

with the spirit of what he was able to achieve

with my brother and I

in such a short time you know I

I was 10 years older than you were when I lost my mom

and I had a similar kind of relationship with my mom

she was an unbelievably absolutely extraordinary person

yeah um

I was blessed to have had her for as long as I did

um but there isn't anything I wouldn't give

to have her now and to have her know my kids and

and all of that

it's almost like she became superhuman

yeah in her absence where it it's

it's almost and

and she became a totem that I could aspire to

live up to and if she had survived to this day

she'd be a human

and the lessons that I would have gotten from her

I would have gotten more lessons

but they they

I don't know that they would have been as powerful

yeah no that's

that's the juxtaposition right

yeah that um

you know when people leave us

if they

their legacy is much more powerful than their physical

body and their physical presence

yeah and and what an honor to

have left that kind of legacy right

I mean isn't that what we all aspire to is right

to have those who come after us

say the kinds of things about us

that we're saying about our parents

it's it's wonderful for them yeah

um just to kind of seal that in

um I have been um

volunteering at a um

a senior home for about six months now

and I've been walking with this

this gentleman and he is 97 and uh

him and I would take walks

and I'd listen to his stories and um

you know it was just something that I did once a week

and uh

it brought me a lot of joy in the sense that I had um

some service to someone but at the same time

like imagine being that old

and not having anyone around to spend the

the rest of your life with or share

share your story with and the

the day that my daughter was born

which was last week um

he passed away on that day and um

I was talking to his wife Billy and um

there was just this moment

where I realized like wow

I'm experiencing life and birth at the same exact time

as someone is experiencing this huge loss and death of

of someone and dude

it just hit me so hard and um the

the takeaway for that I was talking to my boss about it

him and I see eye to eye on all this stuff which is

it's not really that far away and

you know the

the time doesn't make a whole lot of sense

and you know

him and I are both hunters

and we're like in nine seasons

hunting seasons we'll be 50 years old

and our kids will be sort of

working their way out of the house

that's nine years away it's nothing

it's nothing it's a

it's a it's a drop a

in a bucket of time that is so small

and so you know

having the ability to kind of take a step back and and

and see that

that total juxtaposition of birth and death and

and then understanding that really at the end of life

I think that it's exactly what I want

is for people to say hey

you know

fond memories of this of this man or

you know um

the way he showed up in the world

and that's what really matters

the money doesn't matter the um

you know the the

the awards on the wall they all go away and um

your spirit is what is left in people's hearts

and minds after you leave yeah

yeah I think that what a

what a beautiful sentiment

and I love that story about

about about your volunteer work at the senior home I

I love it yeah

it's it's been fun

it's it really is

and it's yeah what

but man to sign up for that

you know that's

that's gonna happen over and over again yeah

um you're gonna get to know these people

you're gonna get close to these people

and they're gonna leave and it's a gift

you know it's

it's a gift

to spend those last moments with someone that

essentially had most of them have no one and um

and what it does for me

it's not that I want people to know that I go do that

it's that there is I

I I understand very clearly that service above self

in some way is what brightens my spirit

and makes me a better person um

and and it makes me have to be fully present

if I was in a hurry or a rush

you know they walk at a half a mile per hour

you know and it really kind of forces me to slow down

and to just be really grateful

I think gratitude is like the

the antidote to depression or anxiety

no question you know and

and if you're spending time with someone that is

at the end of their time it's um

it's really palpable yeah

yeah I

I know what you mean

it's it's

it's like going to the gym and you almost don't

you don't aspire to go to the gym

when you're not at the gym really right

but when you leave the gym after having worked out

you feel amazing yeah

and so intellectually I can imagine

like not wanting to go through that heartbreak

but that's not the way you experience it at the moment

and when you leave it it's it's

it's you get

you get this value that you couldn't have imagined

there's no other way to get the value

it's intrinsic yeah

yeah and you can't

you can't imagine it before you're there

yeah and that's

that's a really powerful statement

yeah it's called uh

befrienders and um yeah

you know luckily that I have a

an amazing you know

host of teammates that I work with

and the owner of the facility that I

that I'm a director at

she really encourages the non profit work and the

the volunteer work and she actually pay

pays us to go no kidding

and volunteer what a wow

that's yeah

I think and for her to see the value

that it comes back full circle that

and she's willing to you know

put some some money up against it is um

it's a really cool opportunity

it makes me really excited to

to be a part of the team that I'm

you know with here at the

at the hot springs at the resort

um'cause it is it's full

it's full functional wellness

and that doesn't just mean

you know the gym or the

the sauna that's your

your spiritual health as well

and um

really proud to be able to work

with people that fully understand that

or at least embody it yeah

I wanna talk for a moment about um

your experience in the military

what um

did the process of becoming

and being a Green Beret teach you

about leadership about masculinity and about discipline

yeah that's a big question and um

lots of answers to that for sure

um you know

I started out um

just sort of wandering around aimlessly

as we spoke about earlier

not having a whole lot of direction as a young man

and not knowing where to put my energy

and um

you know I read this book called Masters of chaos

when I was really young

and it was about a Special Forces team that went in

in the invasion of Iraq and um

there was just so much

content in that book that drew me towards

you know the

the coveted Green beret and um

a lot of what drew me into that realm was the

the autonomy that they had

and the ability for them to

be completely self sufficient and um

you know the sense of freedom that I

that I believed would be possible

to go join an elite unit like that

and um

there was something probably

subconscious that I didn't completely understand

that I knew I wanted to test myself

and I wanted to be around the best people in the world

yeah I wanted to be mentored and LED by these giants of

of men that had uh

that gone that had gone before me

and so you know

that book really sort of like laid the uh

the groundwork for me to

to become disciplined especially in my physical body

and that was a really good outlet for my anger

that we talked about earlier was

is working out it always has been

and I think it always will be

being able to have that faucet for myself to um

to just sort of unload everything from the day

or the week or whatever's going on with me

I just I really

truly believe that fitness

and physical health is the top shelf

and then everything flows down from there

and

my father did such an excellent job of modeling that

you know when we were kids

me and my brother he used to drop us off at the

the daycare gym

or the gym daycare yeah

and you know

we would sit at the gate and watch him work out and

yeah and he was an absolute stud

I mean he would do these like bicep workouts before the

his softball games

just to make himself look a little bit stronger

you know right

right and be a little bit more intimidating yeah

and and dude

he would just wallop balls out of the park

like my brother and I would go stand behind the fence

yeah and he would hit cars all the time

and we would go hard with the

you know he'd hit home runs and um

he was just

he was just such a larger than life character and

and fitness and health and wellness was

was definitely at was a priority for him

yeah you know you

you talk about this

this touchstone of anger keeps coming back

and I I found that when my boy was 3 months old

nobody in my life could ever have made me angrier

than this little sack of emotion and

and I struggled with this because I am not by nature

an angry person sure

um I'm

I'm very laid back I'm very

uh you know

take things as they come and I I

I don't I don't react that way

I actually often felt like that was

a detriment to me

because I did not have the kind of experience

having to control my anger

the way that somebody who got angry a lot

when they were younger

would have

and so I'm interested in knowing for you

you and I are opposites in this way

and I'm really interested to know

what was that experience for you

when your son was just young

I mean did you experience that too

how did you control your anger

how did you

how did you manage that that's a great question

and I think three is the right age to

to uh

to focus on here and um

you know when he was born

it was just this amazing thing this

this this

this little boy came into my life

and it was toys and smiles and laughs

and then around 3

is when he really started to challenge my wife

and I yeah

in a big way yeah

and it was um

luckily so to kind of back up a little bit

I had been um

introduced into a men's group in Bozeman and um

sort of the emphasis of the

the group was to uh

be in touch with your emotions and your physical body

and that was something I was completely unaware of

at the time and this is at post military and

you know

I can remember sitting in a circle with a bunch of guys

and um

the very first night that I showed up um

I had no idea what I was getting into

I just kind of trusted the guy who was leading the

the group I had actually heard him on Joe Rogan

and he said he lived in Bozeman

so I was like hey

I'm gonna reach out to this guy

and see what this men's group is all about wow

and um

I hit him up on Facebook Messenger

and he got back to me and said yeah

let's have coffee tomorrow

morning

so anyway we hit it off

I could see clearly

that him and I were on the same trajectory

I was my wife was pregnant

his wife was pregnant we were wow

both having our first child

and um

you know I came and sat in on this group

and when I came into the room

everyone was quiet and these guys were meditating and

uh you know

I'm used to walking into a team room

with a bunch of ball busting guys

and I can imagine loud you know

beer drinking you know

snuff in the in your lip and

you know spitting in a bottle

it's sort of like sure

that's my that's my environment

that's what I'm used to to

to so to

to see a bunch of guys just sitting calmly

meditating was fucking terrifying

must have blown your mind

absolutely

and so you know

the first prompt into the group was

you know to share your

you know your emotion and your

your physical state and it

it got to me and um

I didn't know what to say

yeah and the guy said hey

can I mimic your your body language

and I said yeah sure

and the guy grabbed onto a chair real tight

and I looked down and that's what I was doing

I looked like I was on a roller coaster

wow he said

can I give you permission to relax

and I did like I physically felt myself relax

but then

what came after that was about 30 minutes of tears

oh my gosh and um

you know I was honored by those men for expressing

what I had been feeling for a long time

which was just this build up

of just holding on to things and um

the the real weird part that

I never would have subscribed to

if I if I would have known this was gonna happen

you know the guy that was leading the group said

can we hold you up and I said sure

and I'd already kind of given

I already kind of

opened the floodgates to vulnerability at that time

and they just kind of held me up and like

I was like laying down

and they held me up and I just continued to cry and um

it felt as if after that that evening

that I had just taken off a snowsuit of pain

and just sorrow and

you know just built up

pent up whatever

yeah and um

so then for two years I didn't miss one Thursday night

I mean every Thursday

I was there wanting to understand more about myself

um my emotional state

what's what's inside me

and um

it was tremendous it was um

it was like a floodgate of uh

of awareness and an understanding of myself

and my ability to regulate emotion

and to to understand what my body's feeling at the time

and not to override those things

which I had done my whole life

yeah and so that three year old boy to circle back

really tested those emotions

how bad and test

and what I understand now about children

is that they're just a mirror for you

and so it became very clear that my three year old son

Easton was mirroring my wife and I's energy

and what I really came to understand

and my wife did as well

is that he can feel everything that we feel

and the only way to

to guide him is for us to be in control of ourselves

and so we started really working on a calm home

um a

a calm and loving approach to his behavior

and so there was one circumstance that sticks out

like a sore thumb to me

and he was very physical and pretty fun

pretty violent as a three year old

and um

one time we were in the shower and

you know we were

we were getting rinsed off

and he just stomped on my foot as hard as he could

and I remember just kind of closing my eyes

and looking at him and saying

I love you buddy and he looked up at me and said

I love you too dad

he goes I'm sorry that I hurt you huh

and um

it's just this like massive

just like getting hit by a truck that like really

I'm driving this situation

I'm driving his emotional state and I'm guiding him

in a in a really big way and so

you know it wasn't all perfect for sure

there was a lot of reactions

you know and

and I'm I am a reactive guy

and so yeah

you know I can't tell you how many times I went to bed

upset with myself

for how I did react or respond to his behavior

so many times yeah

I I

I mean absolutely yeah

like oh man

I really messed that up like God

I'm such a piece of shit you know

and I'm gonna ruin my kid for his whole life yeah

from this one interaction we had

because he wanted candy and I wouldn't give it to him

and I whatever yeah

and you know

one thing that my wife has taught me um

so throughout the like sort of the uh

the lineage of of my son Easton

you know he

most of his life I was gone

so I was still in the army when

when he was born and then

you know subsequently

I had a lot of jobs that required me to travel right

and so what that did was create sort of a void in

in our relationship

but what I tried to do was compensate for that

when I got home and so I thought and and

and I'm

I'm still learning about this is that in my mind

love is

you know

taking him to target and buying a toy or spending time

with him you know

every day I'd pick him up from school and say

what do you wanna do

and I sort of created this groove in our relationship

where he believes or had

has believed in the past that dad equals fun

and so my wife looked at me one night

she could tell I was exhausted

and what I tried to do and I sort of

backed myself up into a corner with this mindset

was just to try to not say no to him

yeah and um

so at night when it's time to go to bed

and I'm exhausted from work

and I gotta get up early hey dad

let's let's wrestle or let's play

and I was just totally completely tired at the time

and my wife said why don't you just say no

you know you're tired

and I said I can't like yeah

I gotta make up time like this little guy needs me

and then I'm leaving tomorrow

and I'll be gone for two weeks

and she said

you are teaching him boundaries by telling him no

he needs to know that he can do that to other people

wow I said wow

I said so true

you're right

and so I've been working on that balance for

you know the last five years of what do I say yes

yes to what do I say no to

and then just like

taking a step back and realizing that those moments of

me having boundaries isn't me being a bad dad

it's teaching him that there are times where we say yes

and there are times where we're busy or tired

and we just have to say no

and so it's been a it's been an amazing learning curve

um and in such a long answer to your question

but um

you know

when I sense that his behavior is going a certain way

it's caused me to have to get more resourceful and more

uh creative and sort of redirecting that behavior

and I think we all just want to live our lives

and have our kids be the best kids in the world

and you know

but being able to like

take a step back when you are busy

when you're in the middle of something

that needs to be done right now

but then prioritizing his emotions and his experience

you know I

it's like cooking

my wife will cook and bake with the kids

and there's flour and dough

and like the kitchen looks like a

you know a Hurricane went through there

sure it does

but she knows that the value is in them

having the hands on experience and the connection

and I've really had to

I've really had to play with that

and experiment with that and get used to that

um there was one moment where um

I was sort of at my wit's end

where every day I'd come home and the house

would be destroyed and one

the one thing that I

I was annoyed with the most at the time was ketchup

it was like my kids had ketchup everywhere

on the kitchen table you know

on the paper towel roll it was on my clothes often

and I had this mentor and he said dude

you have to figure out how to fall in love with ketchup

hahaha

he goes it's all in the brain

it's all in the mind and

and I totally believe this

and we can continue to talk about this forever

that is such I

I wanna I wanna

I wanna put a pin on that

because that is an unbelievably powerful sentiment

is you make the meaning you

you decide either unconsciously or consciously

what this ketchup thing means to you

yeah and you can decide to change that meaning

if you want to 100%

and you just need to do it

and when you do it it is a decision and then it's done

and then when you do it

you realize how petty you were being

that's right and you

and you realize

wow I'm getting to choose

this powerful relationship with my child

versus this angry monster that doesn't like ketchup

right and it's

it's so visceral and powerful in the moment

to realize that you do

you have that ability inside of you

to disregard this judgment

or this um

you know this feeling of like being in it really it's

it's not being in control yeah

your reflex doesn't have to be the way that you respond

everything

no and

and and we can we

there's so many rabbit holes we could go down in

in with this thread but um

you getting to decide what you're comfortable with

and what you're not comfortable with is um

it's a superpower yes

and so you know

going back to like being a kid and being angry and then

you know becoming a Green Beret

when I was a kid I didn't like discomfort

and I didn't like dirt or MUD

or anything uncomfortable

and I used to get shamed for it yeah

um of oh

Aaron's kind of a sissy or

you know he's

he's uncomfortable in the cold water or

you know he doesn't like MUD on him

and that was all true

but when I

decided that I was gonna become a Green Beret

and I I went to the course

I started to develop a new relationship with

those feelings and that

and so dirt and MUD and sweat and like

you know clothes I've had on for six or seven days

became sort of amazing to me

and it became sort of part of the process and um

you know even up to this day I'll

I go on these hunting trips and um

you know I don't shower for a week or 10 days and

you know I'm covered in dirt and blood and MUD and

I love it it's part of me

it's yeah

it's this gritty you know

feeling of accomplishment that I've decided for myself

that that's the way it's gonna be

I'm not focusing on that discomfort aspect

I'm saying

there's somewhere in the rewiring of my brain

that has become so accustomed to discomfort

that I enjoy it I know that it equals growth and um

I wish I could like

package that up and give it to a lot of people

I really do yeah

I that that's a superpower

that's exactly right that's it

that is an absolute superpower

and really it doesn't take a whole lot more than just

deciding to do it it's it yeah

I wanna talk for a moment about Wild Ops box

your your comment about the men's group that you

that you stumbled upon basically

um

makes me think about how

we used to have institutions that we would go

that we were sort of forced to go to

church is a great example of this

30 years ago you and I would go to church every Sunday

and that would kind of force us into community

and a lot of those institutions

are starting to crumble down

and as a result we have to be intentional about

how we find those kinds of things

and that is kind of how I think about

what you're doing with Wild Ops Box

we're losing our institutions

we're losing our thresholds um

so I'm I'm

really interested to talk about that

where did that idea come from and what's it all about

yeah so there's a lot of different um

threads that you know

I could pull on here and um

I think generally speaking

it's a culmination

of things I have done in my professional

and my you know my

my just personally personal achievements

so you know

um

after I got out of the army

one thing I really kind of

attached myself to

or became really interested in is the

the field skills of being outside and yeah

you know learning to survive and um

one of my mentors actually runs a

a survival camp here in Montana in the summer and um

I'd always admired him and

and his mentorship and um

the one thing that I've done

since I've got out of the army is

you know

you become a Green Beret and that becomes your identity

and it's really hard to step like away from that or to

uh

to to graduate into something different

yeah and I think what happens to a lot of guys

definitely happened to me

was you take that identity

and you just transmuted into something else

but really

all of the things that really weren't working out

still exist and so for me

uh when I got out of the army

it was a very difficult transition

in the sense that I didn't know where to put my energy

and how to maintain a certain identity

and my idea of what that looked like was

having a really sexy job um

you know I was a

a safety guide for National Geographic

for a TV show in Alaska you know

I ran a veteran special operations non profit

um I was a

a wilderness guide for um

you know taking

taking veterans on

on experiences in Yellowstone and Glacier

Appalachian Trail Joshua Tree

all that stuff and um

I had really been focusing on the

the identity aspect of what is Aaron doing

what is

you know how is my experience and my

my identity flowing through me to obtain security

um um

and and

and supporting my family

and really all of those careers required me to be away

to be um

out of the house to be in the field right

and um

so really I had just like transferred

you know a deployment into a different thing

which wasn't as dangerous

and I guess you could argue that with being in Alaska

but um

you know

my wife and I were sitting at this park one night and

um I'd sort of came to a um

sort of

this conclusion that I needed to figure out something

more grounded for me that allowed me to stay home

but something that I could like sink my teeth into and

and focus on for a career

yeah and um

you know we went back and forth of

you know I could do this

I could do that and my wife just looked at me and said

that all requires you to be gone and um

how about you come up with something

that keeps you here in

in in the home

and I said to her you know

what if we created like a

a subscription box company

that allowed us to spend time with our kids

and to cultivate

a lot of the lessons that I've Learned over time

to help support families specifically dads

and she was like okay

you're starting to get somewhere

she goes this sounds interesting

she goes what would you put in those boxes

and I said

the one thing that I enjoy more than anything is

you know being in the back country here in Montana

and I said

what I've came to understand through my career

and through this this

you know line of uh

of work I've done is that men

seem to not really know how to do these core skills

yeah I

I watched a guy in Alaska

try to start a fire by lighting a whole log on fire

you know and

and he I watched him fall on his face for 30 minutes

doing that until I said listen

you gotta break that down into smaller tender uh

you've got to get something that uh

you know

will allow the oxygen to get underneath the fire and

and these grown men are blown away

wow and so I thought to

myself you know

this all comes second nature to me

first nature to me and so what if we put outdoor we

we blended outdoor education into a survival skill

and what if we made it sort of like the Boy Scouts

but on your own

and so with the busy schedules that people have

you know with with with uh

school and sports

and all the extracurricular activities

I think one reason that the Boy Scouts has kind of

fallen apart

is because no one has time to get the uniforms

and go sell cookies and popcorn

and all that good stuff sure

and so

what if we gave families the opportunity to do that

um in their own time and to create more of a a blended

um

you know product that allowed for parents to connect

on a deeper level with their children

and teach these basic

survival skills that we've sort of lost over time

and my wife's like

of all the things you've ever came up with

in this moment she goes

I am confident that this is what you should be doing

and so I briefed that plan to a buddy of mine

and he was like dude

I think that's gonna work he's like

it sounds awesome

and this was back in like December of this past year

and um

right after that I think it was like January 3rd

I had an old teammate of mine reach out and say

hey dude what

are you doing with your time right now

and I said well

I'm a director at this resort

but I'm also building this brand and um

I think it's really cool and he goes

well tell me about it

so I told him basically what I told you

and he said listen

I'm in a position to support you

and I think your idea is amazing

and he goes let's talk about what that looks like

and so about two weeks later he um

he presented me with a really generous plan to

to fund Wild Ops Box and that's fantastic

and so that's where I'm at right now

um you know

I just got I just returned from uh Las Vegas

I went and presented uh

Wild Ops box to a panel of

of judges and to an entire audience of people and um

it's really all coming together and um

it's amazing yeah

and and I hope that I answered your

your question yeah

so when we talk about the

the crumbling of institutions

a lot of the reflex um

I think in a lot of ways

is to try and bolster up those old institutions

oh well

we need to go to church more or whatever it is

and what that fails to do is really embrace yeah

what is great about the modern world

what is possible now that wasn't possible 15 years ago

sure and what you've done is

you're looking to solve that problem in

a way that is consistent with the modern world

and yeah I think it's very timely

it is tremendously powerful

thank you and um

and I'm I'm

I'm glad you're doing it and I

I'm I'm really excited to see where it goes

well thank you

and you know

at this point in my life you know

I've been involved in several

you know startup companies

uh non profits

and I've I've always kind of wondered like

why have they not worked out

you know why

why am I still here sort of wondering where to go next

and I think really

all of those experiences for me have been scaffolding

to sort of

support this idea and understand what to do

and what not to do um

the one thing that I'm certain of is that

you know building a

a startup company with no uh

income and no backup plan is an absolute

recipe for a dumpster fire

and uh

I've been in those dumpster fires so much

yep

in one of the toughest economies we've had in a while

yeah and so

what I've done with Wild Ops Box is I've set these

you know really solid intentions of building it

one day at a time yep

and so the really kind of

the golden lining of all this is that

I truly love the job that I have right now

that supports us and pays the bills

and then you know

within that simultaneously

I can say

what can I do today to bring Wild Ops box to life

and then I work on it for an hour or two

and I move the needle a little bit forward

and after you know 7

8 months the the needle has moved quite far

yeah

and I've been taking it very slowly and deliberately

and creating it because it does mean everything to me

it's not just a um it's not just a like a hobby

like I hope this is a legacy

you know that last through my lifetime

and then through my kids lifetimes

and we did this proof of concept about a month ago

and I got

I have some real great friends over at Black Rifle

Coffee Company and they heard my idea and they said

dude we'd love to support you

and their lead content creator

his name is Ben Pennington

he's doing some great work too

but aside from from Black Rifle

but he saw the he saw the value and came out

and we did this interview where we're sitting in the

this like old Log Cabin and uh

he's asking me questions about Wild Ops Box

and sort of trying to create like a founder's

video for me yeah

and my son

Easton is sitting on the couch listening to me and um

one of the most proud moments

that I've had in quite some time is uh

he stood up during the interview and said dad

can I come up there and say a couple things

he goes I've got some things to say

wow and I

yeah come on up

so he just came up

sat on my lap and started answering questions from the

you know the

the interviewer and it was like absolute gold

and to be a fly on the wall

or be a dad to a boy that has that much confidence is

uh is sort of an affirmation for how I've raised him

and um

I was just really proud of him

that's such a victory moment for you

and totally yeah I

I love that story and man I

I I can just imagine what that's like

now let me

so you just had

you mentioned earlier you just had a daughter

I did a week ago and

and you've had two sons for

well you've had at least one son for eight years

yeah and for me

I have one son and one daughter

they're three years apart and

my daughter completely changed me

and the way that I think about being a parent

and all of that stuff

what was that experience like for you

after two sons

and all the wrestling and all the outdoor stuff and

and everything you got going on

yeah what was

what was what did

how

did having your daughter change the way that you felt

about being a father

yeah definitely um

a big transition and uh

different feelings different emotions

um you

know and

and leading up to having my baby girl

you know all my buddies who are girl dads

which I have quite a few of them

they all say it's gonna change you man you

you know like it's

it's coming and

you know even before she was born

I could feel sort of

this different energy and this different dynamic uh

even within our household and um

you know my buddy I

I told you called me

and asked me to articulate some emotions

that came along with having a girl

and the the No. 1 thing that I have felt is this

just tremendous softening of

of of myself and my

my own energy and welcoming her little tiny fragile

you know feminine energy into my being

has just been so much different

like with my boys I just throw them over my shoulder

like a sack of hammers and right

you know the wrestling

the farting you know

it's it's all boy

our whole house so we have two boys and we have a

a a boy dog and

and it's like my wife is just like

completely singled out

that was the way my childhood was

there were four of us and all male pets

we had a male cat we had a male dog

I think the fish were even male

my mom

well she was

I mean

there's a lot to unpack here because I grew up that way

I grew up with brothers

I grew up with male cousins um

I went on to play Rugby and

you know a lot of all male sports and then

you know

went to the only all male organization within the army

which is the special operations

and so you know

my relationship

and my exposure to females has been negligible

compared to the massive

amount of masculinity that I've been surrounded by

right and so

you know there was definitely a softening

but then simultaneously a hardening to just know that

like I've got to protect this little

this little girl and her her energy

and her impact on me has already started to kind of

work its way into my soul

and

you know I

I don't think a lot of people talk about this

but it really sort of does transform the way that you

that you look at women too

yeah um

you know I've always respected and loved my wife and

you know treated her like a princess and

but there's almost no other feeling

like

having a daughter and knowing that you're gonna be like

the first line of defense for everything

I mean you are

you are going to be the man for everything

my boys are gonna grow up tough and strong and they're

they're gonna go out on their own

and my

eight year old would probably be fine in the world

right now

um

but to know that I have this like little being that

really kind of looks to me for guidance and and

and strength and um

and support is uh

probably for a lifetime is

is is such a different feeling

and so I'm feeling really blessed

I feel like the the household

the dynamic has changed so much

the boys are obsessed with her

they are constantly wanting to hold her

and that's wonderful play with her

and they don't realize that she's not like

play worthy yet and they're like pulling on her and

you know you kind of like

you know trying to take her away from us

and it's like hey

you gotta kind of treat her like a little

like fragile egg at this moment

but um

yeah it's definitely changed the way I feel

the way I think um

and then you know

long term

it's like my wife and I talked about it a long time ago

we should have a girl so

she sticks around and takes care of us when we're old

right cause these boys are gone

these boys yeah

who knows what their future looks like

but um

yeah it's a

it's definitely a a precious uh

you know new dynamic that I

I never could have uh

planned for or or even

you know theoretically

yeah it's a

there's a big difference

there's a big difference and it's

it's really really interesting

and it only gets more that way and more better

my wife and daughter both dressed up in

the same costume oh

uh for Halloween

and they so they were both dressed up as roomie from uh

uh K Pop Demon Hunters

oh and I'm unaware of that

which is I mean

half the girls

in the neighborhood were dressed up as Rumi

from K Pop Demon Hunters

a very very popular costume

got it and it was

but watching them they were

it was so adorable my daughter

who's 3 is just an absolute little mini me for my wife

and it was the cutest thing

and I just uh

you've got a lot more in store

well of that stuff

yeah and

and one thing that I want to hit on is like

I think as guys it's real easy for us to navigate boys

in the sense that it's just like this masculine

you know wrestling and

you know hunting and fishing and

you know just

but to have the vulnerability

to sit down and have a tea party

or play with barbies

or allow a little girl to paint your nails

or mess with your hair

it's just a whole new level of territory that um

I think forces tough guys to really kind of

let their guard down and um

one thing that comes up when I

when I talk about that

I used to run this non profit for special operations

veterans

and we had this one week that we called restore

and it was the empathy of it

the intention of it was to every day Saturday

you get to play with your kids

and sort of begin to restore this relationship

cause most of the guys that came here

um had been at war for 20 years in

in the GWOT

and just really were out of touch with their

with their children

and the one thing that sort of happened unintentionally

was that the guys would all sort of

gather on the front porch and drink coffee

and tell war stories yeah

and um

that's just what we do it's

it's it's inherent to to our past

it's kind of

what happens when you put all these guys together

sure and um

without judgment you know

I sort of just like

walked up on the porch one day and said hey

you're you're all badass MF's

you know like we

we know what you've done um

you've all achieved way beyond what anybody

has ever considered you know

in in the military and whatever and I said

but those kids they're all playing out there

and you all are sitting here on the porch

telling your war stories

and I said

I want you to take the time in the

in the next four or five days

to exclusively commit yourself to your kids

and um I said

you're all gonna have a homework assignment

and in that assignment

you're gonna stand up here in front of everybody

and commit your vows to your children

and they all were like

oh okay

so they went on they definitely got the message

and then um

you know this guy

he was a Marine recon guys

probably 6 foot 4 bald

covered in tattoos

looks like he just came off the set of sons of anarchy

and um

he sat there

and committed his vows to his two daughters

and everybody in the room put on their sunglasses

because it was so powerful yeah

to see both his little girls just hanging on him

and listening to him like commit this

these future intentions to them and how he was gonna be

and uh

so powerful yeah

but to see a guy like that

that's just completely full of aggression and anger and

you know 20 years of war and get up and

soften himself to a crowd of people

in front of his two girls

was just that was just unbelievable to me and um

I think it says a lot about what we can do

in terms of accountability and community

you know and you bring up all of those um

organizations and community

um you know

aspects that were

that were sort of losing out on or missing out on

and I think that

that's an environment that we all really crave

is to have that accountability

and that ability to be vulnerable

and to say what we wanted

say what we want in life that means enough that's

it's meaningful enough for people to listen and for

us to take seriously and commit to with our children

it's um

it's a really special thing

I really love that vow to your children

you know we

we we stand up in front of a church and

and make vows or

or in front of a congregation of some sort

to make vows to our wife right and

and her to us and then we just have kids

yeah and we don't make vows of them

and maybe maybe we should

that that's actually a much more permanent

aspect of our lives um yeah

get divorced from your wife

you can't get divorced from your kids

no and

and it I

I I really like that as

as a threshold ritual

and and

and that's what it is and a lot of what Wild Ops Box is

you know the

the outdoor skills the survival skills

they're great yeah

and what they are is a vehicle to get to those rituals

and so within each box is an activity

there's an educational piece

there is a um there

there there's a

a tangible hands on skill that you get to learn

but within that is a a prompt

um whether it's um

you know I have these little

you know um

like uh

Altoid cans yeah

that come with prompts

that go into the land navigation box

and then the the

the mother the father

whoever's leading the exercise and the

the emphasis is hey

find your way to this item

and then once they get there

they open up the can and there's a

there's a question

and that question is a meaningful prompt to connection

and so one might say you know

what do you really appreciate about your dad or

you know what can I do better as a dad

to help you and guide you along this way

and so it's something that I think that we

we know we need to do

but what Wild Ops Box does is grant

mothers and fathers permission

to go deeper with their kids

yeah to create a set of values

like one of the boxes has a value prompt that

at the end of the day when you're done

it goes on your fridge

and it outlines your values within the home

and what we can hold accountable for

for each other and so when we did that with our kids

we let them come up with all the values

yeah that's what

what an amazing exercise yeah

and you know

I sat down on with Sharpie and a note card

and I wrote all the things that they really wanna say

they wanna be held accountable for

yeah is

you know a clean home

a happy home um

you know

speaking respectfully towards each other

um having family time

you know whatever it may be

and those values are front and center in our home

and whenever those values are compromised

it's very easy for my wife and I or even my

my kids to say wait a minute

I don't think we're doing that yeah

you just point at the fridge and say hey

that's being violated yeah

or this thing that happened

does not equate to what we promised each other

on the fridge yeah

and I think when you take those things

and you put them into writing

and you have that ritual with your family as a whole

yeah it is the

it's the mortar that holds the home together

no question no question

I and

you're not gonna do it otherwise unless

unless there's a prompt

you're not gonna do it otherwise frankly

and and

and you can have an idea yeah

your wife can have an idea

of how you want the home to run right

but once you make it their idea right

it becomes a real thing yeah

and you're empowering them

you're you're empowering them to succeed yeah

which is something that we don't do enough as

as adults we just want them to follow orders

fall in line and that's one thing that like

doesn't happen in the Special Forces

we don't

we make the orders right

you know

we go in before anyone else and we see what's going on

on the ground and then we tell our higher UPS

this is what you have these other units do to succeed

and so that's what we do in our home

we allow our kids to have the ideas

yeah of the way things should look

and that accountability lies on us

and them at the same time yeah

and and

and you know kids

they're this kind of bundle of contradictions and um

they

they want connection

but they also want independence

and so you'll get these

I'll have these situations where my daughter

is screaming at us and she's just like

get away from me get away from me

get away from me all I want is love

and that's

that's those two parts of her that are just at war

and we do a lot of the connection stuff we

you know I mean

as parents I think that sort of thing comes out here

give me a hug and let's do family

you know and

you know certainly if that's

it's not it's lacking in some families

but I think a lot of families

do a really good job of the connection stuff

but ritualizing the independence bit

is a little bit harder it is

because it takes so much trust and it takes so much

uh getting out of your comfort zone and

but this is a way to to ritualize that yeah

and and

and that's what I hope that Wild Ops Box achieves

is that intrinsic value

that is essentially just a delivery system

for parents to say oh wow

this is something we didn't even know we needed

and now that it's here it's um

it's working yeah

so it's indispensable yeah

yeah for sure

and it can grow over time and change and transform and

you know and I think the the

the the

the elements that are needed for that is presence

and patience and intention

and then when you have those three things

that becomes a ritual that becomes a real thing

that I think they can sense our ability to be present

to make eye contact you know

I can't tell you how many times like my kid says

look at this look at that

look at this look at that and and

and you're doing something

all they want is to for you to actually look at them

right and we're trying to make dinner or we're trying

yeah or you're browsing through your phone

well and

and that's something that my kids have really shown me

um is like my eight year old say dad

you've been looking at your phone for like 30 minutes

wow and I say

oh boy

you're right good for him

let me put this down and so for a good while there

before I started the company

I would just leave my phone in my truck after work

and just really focus on that intention of coming home

and being present and being a part of the house

yeah

instead of laying on the couch and scrolling LinkedIn

or Instagram or whatever it was at the time and

and that's the other intention of wild ops

boxes to get cause here's the thing

we say kids are on screens too much

but they watch us on screens constantly

and so I saw this this meme and it had a

a parent on a phone and their kid was on a phone

and then the other parent was reading a book

and the kid was reading a book

and the guy on the phone looks over at the

the parent reading the book and says

how do you get kids off screens

you know it's very obvious that they do

that's beautiful I love that meme

what we what we do they just watch us

um yeah

you know and

and going back to like my dad and

and his ability to prioritize fitness and wellness

like yeah

we have to do that in our home

in order to get our kids to see that

that's what we do that's right

and so we work out together

you know what we model for them is

is 100 times as powerful as what we tell them to do

yeah cause they can hear us

but they don't give a shit at all about what we say

it's what they see and feel us do that really matters

that's right

yeah let me ask you what

what message or practical tip could you

do you have

that you would like to leave for fathers listening

who might feel disconnected or inadequate

or angry or or or frustrated

yeah I

think there's a there's a lot to unpack there

but the No. 1 thing that I would want to

communicate to dads if they feel that way

is to just begin to get over yourself

get over yourself in this idea of who you are

and focus on the service and connection of others

whether that's your kids that's your wife

that's your home and

and just being more intentional

I think we all really want those things

we all want connection we all want um

a functional healthy household but as men

I think we've been a bit stifled in

in in the years past

in the last couple decades

of trying to understand what our place is in the home

yeah and

and I'll say that for me that

true masculinity comes from drawing a line in the sand

and saying this is what I want to happen

and this is how we're gonna get there

yeah and setting that intention and moving forward

and so

if that requires you to leave your phone in your car

for a couple months to get there

or to at least begin like

that's a good start

if going to the gym every day for 30 minutes

gets you there that's a good start

if um

you say listen

like there's no questions asked

like Sacred Time with family is Saturday

from 9:00am to two PM then start there

but you have to have a

an actionable agreement with yourself and

with your with your family in order to make it happen

or you will just continue to go down the spiral of

uselessness and um

disconnection

that will eventually

get you to a place where you'll be too late

yeah and I think yeah

you know we

we talked about it earlier

you know um

nine years from now

my oldest son will be in college and he won't be home

and we won't have trips and vacations and summer

and all these things nine years is nothing nothing

you know and so

there's a reason that Wild Ops

Box is set to the age group of 7 to 14

because I think that's the most formidable

useful time that you can spend with your kids

to help guide them into their next chapter

or set them up for success

yeah and I truly believe that if we can create

fully functional children

they can become contributing

you know members of society

and that is on us it's not on them I agree

yeah I agree

I wanna I

I I wanna try something

um I wanna get your advice about something sure

and I had this experience

where I had my boy

uh I took my boy to the park and he's

he's got this amazing quality where you'll

you'll take him to the park and they'll be

I don't know 10 or 15 other boys at the park

and within about five minutes

he will have organized these

boys all of them

and they'll all be playing

the game that he's come up with

and he'll make up a game and be okay

this is you're the pirates and you're the ninjas and

and uh

and you're the you're the

you're the

you're the king Ninja and you're the ruling pirate

and this is the pirate ship and

and he'll he'll be directing everybody

he's he's just

it's like the general on the battlefield

and but he has this vision that he's

he's trying to to

to make happen and

and he goes out there and does that

and the other day he was at the park

and this older girl was kind of messing with him

and maybe even flirting with him and

but she was frustrating his attempts to get what he was

to to accomplish

what he was trying to accomplish in the park

uh with his new friends

and he um

the only way I could describe it is he menaced her

he kind of got into her face and made this face

and was like ah

and he scared her and she cried

she went crying to her dad

and I witnessed this situation and I went apoplectic

and I told you I don't get mad very easily

but this sort of thing makes me mad and um

and so what would you do

wow

yeah I mean

first of all

it sounds like he has some incredible leadership skills

that are kind

of brewing and and

and and coming to

I hope so and

you know it

I am very excited to see what he does with us yeah

um

honestly what I believe happens

for the most part

is that if we allow our kids to sort of

sort it out on their own yeah

they will yeah

and um

I think what happens with us is that

we inject ourselves

and this isn't me coming down on you um

we we

we we try to intercept the

the issue we try to uh

disrupt this uh

this situation that's happening and um

I think if we let it play out for the most part

if everybody's safe yep

the full range of emotions sort of

you know come to

to fruition

and so I'll just share a short story that's my only um

sort of a relevant um

story that goes along with yours

is my son was on a playground as well

and I I started chatting up this dad

and him and I had a lot in common

we started talking about hunting and fishing and um

you know I saw him

my son playing with his daughter

and um

they were playing great and then at one point in time

she sort of harassed him in some way

you know they were at a distance

and I saw my son pick up a handful of sand

and throw it in her face oh

and there was this triggering moment in me that said

okay time to intercept this

time to you know

sort of try and fix this issue

and he held his hand out and put it up against my chest

and said don't worry about it

they'll figure it out on their own wow

and I looked at him and I

I we looked out into the

into the playground and um

the next thing you know

my son was cleaning the sand out of her eyes

and hugged her

and was saying sorry

wow and so

I think what happens as parents is that

we want to fix the issue right now

or we're so embarrassed and it's our prowess that gets

sort of challenged at the time of the conflict

when really

they know that they're doing something right or wrong

yeah and yeah

and there's another dynamic there too

um which is the other parent

you don't you don't wanna get into something with them

right I mean this the yeah

you're trying to begin it

so happens

that the father of the girl was sitting right there and

and put his hand on your chest and stopped you

if he hadn't done that then

I think that you would have felt

some obligation to make sure that he felt

that his daughter was safe

as well clearly

clearly an obligation to um

to try and solve for for

for the issue and luckily

I mean that

that man is now a

good friend of mine and he's a big part of Wild Ops box

wow and um

so having that be this you know

really interesting interaction that I never could have

you know foreseen

and the wisdom

and the patience that it took for him to say no no

like they actually are more enlightened than we are

it's it's his argument

and I do believe that that's true

I believe there are certainly more in

in it they're in the forest and

and we're just kind of looking in well

and um

what I ended up doing is I got

I was I felt really angry inside

um and I did

I felt a lot of pressure from the environment to

to be seen doing something sure

and so I called my boy over to me and I said lake

I said

part of your job

part of your role here on the playground

you're a big big kid

you're bigger than most of the other kids here

and you're a protector

and protectors don't menace people

protectors don't make little girls cry to their dads

and that's a real problem

and he apologized to me and I said

I don't think it's me

that you need to be apologizing to

and then he went over to the girl and apologize to her

and uh

yeah I don't

I don't know what would have happened if well

my feedback on that yeah

is that you did the right thing

um you didn't shame him

you didn't um

you know hit him

you didn't I wanted to

I felt I felt I

I felt the urge to do that and but

but I'm of the opinion that

shame is almost never

the right way to handle something

of course um

and so I really resist that

but you know

and I and to your credit

I think you what you did was you offered him um

guidance and you empowered him as a

as a big kid as a young man

as a protector you gave him something to uh

identify with that was positive

and then he was able to hear you

and experience this transformation of oh wow

I was angry this happened

my dad came in I got this guidance

and now

maybe next time I'll think about that a bit more

and so you know

I think both things

what I described with the hands off approach right

but then also that's how I grew up

I didn't grow up with a dad

and so I didn't have that guy

you just solve your own problems

yeah yeah

solve my own problems so

what I think kids need is mentorship

and guidance from their fathers

that is meaningful and impactful

and that also has um

a bit of um

sustenance to it like

you gave him something empowering to continue on with

that I think

most parents would have just

pulled him off the playground shamed

him said hey

don't ever do that again and go back to normal life

but that doesn't that that's not a good Band Aid either

yeah

so yeah well

thank I appreciate the feedback

I think that's uh

and I I like the way I like the way you framed it

I always want the right answer uh

these conversations

by asking everybody the same question

and I know it's gonna be putting you on the spot

but uh

give me one principle

that you like to live your life by

or that you strive to live your life by

in the area of raising men

for me it's it's eat last and

and to

to sort of um

hold that discipline around my boys

um to show them and and

and guide them towards service and

and and service discipline

honor and um

knowing that we are we are the keepers

we are the the strength

we are the protectors

and so when it comes to meals when it comes to

you know staying in line for something

is that we can stand back and wait for others

before we rush to the front

you know we can

we can hold this line of discipline

even though everything in our bodies and our minds say

get to the front get the first thing

you know get the

the first ice cream cone or or whatever it is um

and for me you know

what that looks like is you

know when I'm

in a group of folks that I'm eating dinner with

I wait till everybody gets their plate um

you know I hold a discipline to myself

yeah that is not just involved with food

but it's what is doing the right thing

look

like in this moment that might be uncomfortable for me

and then modeling that to my kids um

one thing that my dad did

and it kind of goes along with this

is he would

take care of all the troubled kids in the neighborhood

wow and at the time I

I was not I

I was not impressed by having

to have these kids at our house yeah

and my dad would invite them over to play basketball

or kickball or whatever we were doing at the time

and I just looked at him like dad

these kids are troublemakers

I don't like them they're not my friends

and he'd say well listen

you're gonna you're gonna deal with this

because they don't have anybody at home

they don't have anybody to

to guide them you know

the one kid in particular lived with his grandma

and my dad took a huge liking to this kid

and he was such a troublemaker

and he was such a pain in the butt

but he ate dinner with us once or twice a week

my dad made a point to connect with him

and show him how to shoot a basketball

and we even took kids on like family

little outings and vacations with us

that we weren't necessarily excited about um

but now at 41 years old

I see the value in that because I think as men

it's our jobs to guide not only our kids

but the community and set that example for

for other men and and for our kids that it's

we're all in it together

and if we don't stick our hand out

and share what we have we'll just leave people behind

you know yeah

and and it seems like

it's getting harder and harder to do that

yes as our world becomes more digital

as the institutions crumble

and it's just easier

just to kind of stay in your own house and yeah

watch YouTube and uh

it it's becoming more and more important to actually

to actually make that stuff happen

isn't it it is yeah

yeah so keeping that alive is um

definitely of interest to me

well thank you

thank you so much for being so generous with your time

Aaron um

Aaron Blaine is the CEO of Wild Ops Box

if you want to learn more about his work

and about the company

please check out the links in the show notes

Aaron thank you so much for showing us

what it means to turn pain into purpose

and how to raise men who lead

with strength and purpose

man thanks for having me

this has been fun I appreciate you John you're

doing a great thing thanks my friend

raising men is produced by Phil Hernandez

this episode was edited by Ralph Tolentino