it's the biggest like misconception

I think like athletes

I can't tell you how many say they get into a job

and then they start questioning everything

1 it starts with their agitation

like meaning they're sitting at the desk

and they don't know how to sit in a desk

like they just it's so hard

because they are used to moving their bodies

six to eight hours a day right

and then it's like as they've been sold this

this vision that if you get a job

oh you're gonna be happy

like and everything you know

everything solves itself that is so not the case

hello and welcome back to Raising Men

today I'm joined by somebody

who brings a rare

and powerful perspective to the crisis facing boys

right now Emily Houston is a dear friend of mine

whom I've known for 20 years

which blows my mind to think about

and she has spent her life inside male dominated arenas

first as a professional volleyball player

and then later is the CEO of Home Team

a community dedicated to serving elite athletes

during and after their athletic career

Emily welcome to Raising Men

thanks so much Shawn

I'm elated to be here honestly

now you've

as I said

you've lived your life inside male dominated arenas

and how has that shaped your understanding

of men and masculinity

wow well

you're starting

you're hitting hard from the very beginning haha

I you know

I feel like I mean

working in male dominated fields has

it's had it it pros and cons

um I love working with men

I think that there's so much like

there's just so much richness there

and obviously between men and women

there's a lot of like

there's a lot of work that we can do together

um and then on the other hand though

I've also experienced quite a bit of discrimination and

sure um

abuse and um

just some awful awful stuff

so um

you know I feel like I really have seen it all

to be honest

yeah and I

I think that that kind of experience

for a lot of women is radicalizing

and it turns them maybe

anti man but that's not the experience

or that's not the result that

that you have no

no it

I mean it

I think for me like

in terms of the coincide of my involvement with men

it's just given me more understanding of like

of what women go through every single day

of being a woman myself you know

I've experienced these things but um

you know these are not

these are not exaggerations

these are real things that are happening in our culture

and in our world and I

but I like I said earlier

I think that it's really going to take men and women

working together to create a healthier um

a healthier relationship with oneself

and with you know

the communities

and the people that we get to interact with every day

yeah I

I think that you know

so the the

the types of experience that you're talking

the experiences that you're talking about um

tend to cultivate actually

a lot of what is happening in our culture today

tends to cultivate this us or them mentality a

a kind of zero sum game mentality

where it's viewed that every gain

that women have in our culture

is at the expense of men and vice versa every

and so you can get really

you can get this attitude where

where you really pitted against each other

and that's actually how the bad guys win

the bad guys are out there trying to make that happen

so that they can you know

benefit from the demagoguing

oh it's yeah

that's so true

but I also think we need to acknowledge history

yeah I think we need to acknowledge historically

you know what

what has taken place between men and women

and if anything like we could consider perhaps repair

being a part of that process

um but historically

you know some women have described as

if men are standing on their necks

and won't let them stand up

you know and

and I don't disagree with that

I do think that women have historically been put down

and and put in positions to

so that they're not able to thrive

um but I

I don't think that that's always the case today and um

there is more equity um

not 100%

I think that there's still more work to be done for

for women in terms of equity

but there is also now work to be done on the male

the the male side of that equation

yeah so I look at it

I mean

it's my opinion that there's a masculinity crisis today

and I think I mean we

you share that opinion what

from your perspective

what is at the core of the masculinity crisis

I you know

I think that if we again

if we look at the progress that's been made

for women and girls empowerment

and we

you know we

maybe this has been going on for 20

30 years

of a real emphasis on lifting up women and girls and

but I think that

that has been at the expense of lifting up boys and men

and in some ways

I think that boys and men have been left behind

yeah it's that zero sum mentality

yes yeah

and and I don't think that it's been intentional

um in my opinion

um I think that it's been an outcome

but I also think that at the

another core issue

is just the development of our culture and our society

um social media certainly plays a role obviously

um and

you know the world is moving faster

um we also have less third places in the world um

meaning places for people to come to um

maybe I'll step back on that

so first place is like your home environment

where you spend time with your family

second place is your workplace um

where yeah

or your school if you're younger yeah right

yeah or

or school yep

um

which is also a place where we spend most of our time

right um

except less and less now I mean

in work now a lot of people are remote

and so there's less offices and true and

and those sorts of all these institutions are crumbling

that's that's another component and that

you know that obviously ties into technology um

and then the third place

are places that used to be quite abundant um

that are diminishing

and those can include like a cafe or libraries or um

parks people going in

sitting out in parks and and meeting other people um

but I think that there's less opportunity

for people to feel connected

um without technology

I can't tell you how often

I drive around and see empty parks in

in in the city it's

it's crazy and

and I don't know maybe it's always been this way

and I've just never noticed

now that I have kids it's oh

there's a park there but uh wow

I mean there's never anybody in any park yeah

and there's and

you know part of it is

I guess kids are in school and stuff like that

and I'm not necessarily driving around

but sometimes you know

sometimes it's the middle of the day on a Saturday

and the park is completely empty yeah

and I mean so the question is like

what are people doing you know yeah

well they're inside playing video games

watching TV or on their phones yeah yeah

yeah and what

so what do we do about it

well I

I mean I don't

I don't claim to have all the answers

but sure you know

I in terms of what we do

I think that one

it takes just acknowledging that men and boys

and really they're

so in terms okay

so best to step back again

where they're behind is I

is I think that is

has a lot to do with a relationship with themselves and

um and

and connected to other people

so you have the relationship with yourself right

and then you have

the relationship that you have with other people in

in the world and in your communities

and that's where I see men and boys really struggling

is that they they have a hard time identifying

their own personal experience of what's going on

and how to interpret whatever is happening to them um

and then

and then it's also because of that it's difficult

difficult for them to understand themselves

it's difficult to connect with other people

and so you know

the result is going inward

you know hanging out in the basement

hanging out closing closing their

bedroom door and hanging out in the bedroom

playing video games yeah

you know addicted to their phones um

and so not dating

I mean that's another big one right yeah

so yeah not

not having interest in dating

and not being interesting to the opposite sex right

and yeah so there's a another feedback loop yeah

and not working as well I mean

I think we're seeing unprecedented levels of uh

young men who are not working yeah

you know and and also falling behind in education

so these are all like these are all places

second places where we can go to meet people

and we can engage and we can grow and we can thrive

but if we're not if we're stuck in our bedroom

it's not gonna happen

yeah when I when I hear stuff like that

it feels like an opportunity to me

I mean it's

you know so it's an opportunity

it's it actually can make things easier for my son

to some degree because if we

if we surmount this problem

then he's in rarefied air

so to speak and so I I think that's

you know

I don't have I don't think that I'm gonna solve any

I don't have any

any way to solve any big societal problems

I don't have a big platform

I don't you know

I'm I'm not in government or anything like that

what I can do is decide how I'm gonna respond

and for me it really is about okay

what are the what are the tactics

and what is it that I need to do

to make sure that my boy can thrive in the world

and how do I

how do I keep those influences

away from him

and cultivate the kinds of things that are positive and

and part of it is that

a lot of what our modern technology is enabling in us

is particularly caustic or toxic to young men

so

you know ubiquitous availability of porn

this is not something that you

a lot of women a high percentage of women struggle with

but a high percentage of men really do

yeah gambling

you know it

all of those things that that prey upon a um

an immature prefrontal cortex

are things that are going to disproportionately

affect men and so we're seeing that

we've been we've had it for 10 years

we've had social media for 10 years

and so now we're starting to see the effects of it

I think that's that feels like part of the

the cause to me and I think part of the solution it

you know to

to bring this back to your

your domain expertise part of the solution is sports

uh huh and

and I think you know

you were you were part of an elite sports program

both in college and then and then post college

you play professional volleyball

you know what that and

and you did it at a time where

you know

women's sports was not even as celebrated as it is now

and not that it's all that celebrated now even

I mean it was a pathway to college still

but you know

even professionally it

it it

it it doesn't even now

but certainly back when you did it

it wasn't it wasn't really the same way it is for men

what what is your perspective about that

what is

what is kind of a healthy relationship to sports

and how to cultivate that in our boys

so

I think it actually goes back to

to generations before um

what we the system that I grew up in

and that some of my colleagues grew up in

is a very militaristic type of sporting environment um

like no pain no gain type mentality

sure it's like

you do everything at the expense of yourself

for your sport yeah

um it's

you just complete sacrifice for your sport

and um

that that's

to paint a picture

that's the umbrella that we grew up in

and um

and we also see I see in my work

that there's a lot of trauma in sport as well

and you'd be really surprised how

how many like

traumatic experiences there can be for men and women

um in their sporting careers

and so

you know we

we move forward and the athlete

the coaches of today are probably people like me and um

but what we're seeing is a

younger generation that's involved in sports

and they're growing up in a culture that's um

has beginning to destigmatize mental health

beginning to promote the idea that

you're a human over an athlete

um and that

you know that being balanced is important um

for yourself as a human

but also in your sporting career

um and what I

what I believe is that that will

these athletes that are coming up in a more um

holistic environment and sporting environment

will become the coaches of tomorrow

yeah and so I have hope that um

you know that this next generation will

will carry that down and and we will see um

teams that are much healthier

um that um

you know don't necessarily

it's not the no pain no gain type thing

um it's about enjoying your sport

working hard as you can and of course

it takes an incredible amount of sacrifice

to be an elite athlete

but not at the expense of your well being

and not at the expense of your family

and not at the expense of yourself

and um

so I can go into more details about like

what the current sporting environment is like

um but that's

that's kind of where I think we're

we've come from and the direction that we're moving in

yeah if I look at

you know kind of the trends in terms of youth sports

it feels like it's gone in

absolutely the opposite direction of what you're

talking about I mean

these days if you want

if I want my son to be an elite volleyball player

then he better specialize at the age of 11

and he better get into the best clubs in our area

you know forget

forget school athletics that's not a thing anymore

it's now elite clubs it's very expensive

it's very time consuming we're driving all over the

all over the the state to

to go to volleyball tournaments

we're flying places to go to

to go to volleyball tournaments

and that's what it takes

in order to even have a shot at becoming

you know getting up to the next level

and that that works against what you're talking about

I think it sets the stage is

is there is there a pushback against that sort of thing

no not

not not like at a systemic level

yeah you know

because what you're describing is true

you know the

the you have to specialize at a younger age

you have to commit at a younger age

meaning you like moving from a

being a high school athlete to a college athlete

you know it's freshman and sophomores committing

you're talking about you know

a 15 or a 16 year old talking about their

their future careers that are even just four years away

insane I mean

it is insane yeah

so um

and to talk about volleyball

one of the I coach for fun at a

at the club level what you were just talking about

um and it's now nearly year round

so they will they do have the high school season

but they'll after the high school season

no during the high school season now they will um

the season will begin

and then it'll go all the way into the summer

and then they'll have two or three weeks off

and then they'll have tryouts immediately

and so it's it's crazy

honestly what's happening

um

but it doesn't mean that there aren't people out there

who are promoting you know

human over athlete

and trying to destigmatize mental health

that is what one of our objectives with Home Team is

that we're trying to

um we're trying to

fill these systemic gaps that are occurring and um

so the athletes

of today don't have to experience what

the athletes of yesterday experienced

yeah I would love to drill down further into that it

it does seem to me that the

that that home team is a possible antidote to this

and so how are you addressing those kinds of problems

yeah so well

one of the things is that with um

with athlete mental health

there's still a ton of stigma

you know I think that from the work that I'm seeing

mental health is becoming more and more destigmatized

generally um

but because of um

the pressure that athletes are under

and because of N I L too

um N I L is

stands for name image and likeness and it's a pathway

um that is now ubiquitous within the

the NCAA and uh

it's a pathway for athletes to make money

when I was an athlete

I wasn't able to make money off of

the pictures that Baylor was using or

you know

we also weren't allowed to have any sort of income

outside of our of our scholarship

and let's let's call a spade a spade

these athletic institutions are financial machines

I mean it is all about making money

and at the expense of athletes often

and so um anyway

so with nil and also now increased pressure

with funding and all that um

it's it's created a dynamic

where athletes are even more famous

you know they're

and and they're making so much money

I can't it's it's crazy

and that comes with its own challenges

I mean you have people who never made any money at all

and then all of a sudden they've got

you know endorsements worth millions of dollars a year

oh yeah

yeah and it's not just the endorsements

it's also the institutions

the institutions who are paying them to play

yeah and the other thing that for

for the athletes

that aren't quite at this million dollar level

or more um

what has become normalized within I N

I N I L is influencing

and I don't think I need to explain that

because that's probably something we all

we all understand today um

but what that means for the athlete

is that they're constantly on

through social media they have

and let's be real about this

like especially for women um

but men too is you have to look good

you have to be traditionally like

beautiful or hot or sexy you know

and if you are those things

like you're more likely to get deals

because you're gonna sell stuff right

um yeah

you you

there's also an incentive to be controversial

I don't think there's anything wrong with that

personally uh

maybe tell me what you're

what you're thinking well

it depends so

yeah so

one of the ways to get likes on social media

and get exposure and influence on all those things

is to be controversial and there's

there are healthy ways to be controversial

and there are unhealthy ways to be controversial right

yes hundred percent haha

so I mean

so I'll give you I'll give you an example

so I mean

we have so there's Riley gains is

was a um

was a college swimmer

who swam against a trans athlete named Leah Thomas

and I mean she ended up

you know she

she ended up tying for 5th place with with uh

with Leah Thomas and used that to

to to launch herself into the

into the kind of MAGA sphere as an essentially an anti

trans

um activist

and I mean I think that there is a an absolutely rich

a conversation that can be had about

the appropriateness

and inappropriateness of trans athletes in sports

and frankly

I think that the NCA will probably figure that out

just fine

um but what

what I'm focused on

with respect to the Riley Gaines thing is literally

while she was at the university of Kentucky

her coach was it

it was found to have raped two of her teammates

this is a male coach I assume

this is a male coach

and he literally raped two of her teammates

and so she's out there on Fox News

talking about how the biggest threat to women's sports

is transgender athletes

of whom there are a handful in the world

yeah

and her coach was raping her teammates and

and that's she

she she got rich talking about the other thing

but nobody wants to talk about

what I would think is a much bigger threat

to women's sports

are you with me I'm with you

and so I mean

I don't know I don't

I don't feel like that's a good healthy controversy

and and I

I mean I

I also doubt that it's something that

you know it is that

that people are gonna be proud of 10 years from now

yeah I mean

I feel that way about a lot of things it's like

there's a book out there it's

it's some called something like

like you know

so many years from now

nobody's gonna have believed that they were

they're not gonna say that they were on that side

yeah or like yeah

nobody admits to being a Nazi

yeah exactly right

and that that's kind of the sentiment

and especially with like

we're talking about Israel and Palestine

you know I mean

that like

that

like I'm really curious to see where that lands

with Israelis who are anti

Palestine and pro genocide

you know I like man

it yeah

it is yeah

you know that's so interesting

yeah I mean it's

it's devastating and

you know

there are terrible things happening in the world

including in the sports world

as you're bringing up that's right

and you know

that's to be honest with you

that's one of the reasons

why I'm doing the work that I'm doing

is because

you know I'm old enough now where I

it I don't necessarily use the word legacy

but I feel like that's a word that people understand

is like when

is yeah

what Mark am I gonna leave on the world

you know and I have the ability to change things

and so I want to use my position

I wanna use my power

I wanna use my experience to change the

the landscape um

especially when within athlete centered care

um because there are so many

there are so many issues um

so yeah

so here we are yeah

so so basically

I mean if I were to

if I were to paraphrase

essentially what you're trying to do is bring it is

is be kind of a marketplace between the athletes

or ex athletes or or

or soon to be ex athletes

and the resources that they can leverage to thrive

and that means financial help or

or um

mental health and that sort of thing right yeah

so maybe it

it might be helpful if I share part of my story

and yeah yeah

let's hear it yeah

what took me to to today

um so I was

as you said Shawn

I I played volleyball in college

I was a D1 setter at Baylor University

um and I retired

and then about three years into my retirement

I became extremely depressed

I

yeah I was really

really struggling and it absolutely um

was attached to my retirement

I had this idea that you know

I was going to transition into the real life

and I was gonna get married

and I was gonna have kids

and I was gonna have this beautiful life

and all these things and three years into it

like that was not happening um

I'm still not married and I still don't have kids

so this will you know

tells you a little bit

you can borrow my kids anytime you want

I will I will ship them to you

and they can go to Aunt Emily and they can hang out

as long as you're willing to keep them

take them that's

you can send them on over haha

um so

but like life wasn't happening

it wasn't things

weren't lining up the way that I thought they would and

um and I was really struggling

I I thought that my issues were my own issues

and I thought it was a me problem and um

and so anyway in my depressive thinking

I was just desperate to get out of like

this headspace that I was in

and I you know

said to myself like

I need to do something that I'm good at

and something that I I enjoy

and the conclusion that my depressive

mind came to was that the only thing I was good at was

volleyball yeah

now of course that was not true

like of course I've had many other strengths

but I didn't have anybody to help me and I was

I felt very alone um

and so I just decided that OK

I'm gonna I'm gonna go back to volleyball

and so that's so that's what I did

I ended up um

going back and playing volleyball professionally

um I will just for storytelling purposes it

this three year time frame is when I met you

yeah so

you know we were playing volleyball in Dallas together

and those were good times

that's when we became friends

yeah yeah

that's when we became friends

um and so

but what LED me to play volleyball professionally

was my depression so I

you know left the United States

went to Europe played volleyball professionally um

and I played two seasons there

and did end up retiring because of an abusive coach

who was a male um

he absolutely had anger issues

um which we

we now know typically um

like male I'm not saying that he was depressed

I don't

I didn't have enough insight into his mental health

but male depression can um

like the symptomalogy can be aggression and uh

and so that's

was what was coming out in his work with us

is he was fighting other coaches

um he was berating us

um there was

another time where he got in a fistfight with a coach

and we had to call the police

yeah I mean

it was very very bad

and so it got so bad

to the point where I had a dream

that he was going to physically

hurt me like punch me

and I just was like I

this isn't worth it so I quit

um and I did try to transfer

but in my position like it just wasn't possible

but anyway so I quit

and I went back to the US

and then I went to grad school

studied counseling psychology and um

and then ultimately

found myself working in another

very male dominated field

which was private single family offices

and so it was there that I got a ton of world class

operational experience but also experienced

significant issues related to

related to men um

so I'm happy to go into that if you want

but yeah let's do it

let's get into it okay

well um

I experienced um

pay discrimination twice once because my employer

um was attracted to me and had like

had a fantasy that I would be taking care of him

for his for his entire life basically and um

and when I asked for a raise

it confronted this fantasy that he had so um

I was screamed at I was yelled at

I mean it was like

and I was

this asking for a raise was held against me for months

wow um

uh meanwhile

he was in therapy and eventually through his

on therapy sessions

he was able to communicate with me what had happened

which is how I know how I can tell you this interesting

wow yeah

that's fascinating um

and then let's see

another family office that I worked for

I should probably clarify what a family office is

a family office is the um

financial arm of extremely wealthy individuals

and so um

at scale it's more than just financial management

it also goes into operations

and so I manage large teams

like drivers and cooks and all that stuff

um hiring and firing and yeah

all the all that

it's a different world um

yeah that's yeah

but um

so then I

in one of the largest family offices of the world that

that I was working in um

I again

I experienced pay discrimination

I experienced sexual harassment

um bullying

the bullying was really really bad um

by a male family member um

but that must be so tough to deal with cause it's

they're not quite your employer

but they are your employer

and so it the the

the protections that you might get in the

in a normal workplace don't necessarily apply

I guess in

in no

they don't yeah

yeah they're almost a client

yeah almost

I mean I was an employee

but yeah um

but you can't fire the family

so right

so

you know it's

it's a very it's a difficult world to navigate uh

or industry to navigate um

but the sexual harassment came from my colleagues um so

and the pay discrimination

obviously came from my employer

sure so um

yeah anyway

so um

but to go back to my story around like

how we got to home team um

I decided to leave the family office world

I just

after 10 years of working in that environment again

I was like no

like I'm just so done with this

and it was around that time that I reconnected

with a former teammate of mine

and she had written a book called always an athlete

and it described the trajectory or

or the the developmental cycles of a young athlete

from the time that they start committing to

to play a sport like you said very

you said 11 earlier

but it's actually like five to eight years old really

wow yes

it's five to eight years old

and then they

and she equated this experience as if the athlete

developmentally is climbing up a mountain

and the top of that mountain was retirement

and then when she got to the retirement phase

she described it as if the athlete falls off a cliff

and all I just

it just blew my mind like

it must have resonated with you

oh and

and spectacular ways like it honestly

like it changed my life

because of where it brought me to today and

but what I saw through the illustration of her book

in this this cliff effect is that one

like

this is what every athlete experiences

right yeah

it's they retire

your experience is universal

turns out my experience is universal

um and what is

so what is that experience

your support systems evaporate

your team you know

becomes fragmented

everybody moves to different locations

you leave the institution that so much revered you

but now has quite literally discarded you

um I can't tell you how many people have

have shared a similar type of description

um yeah

I've never thought of it that way

um oh you're

you're used to it

you're no longer valuable because remember

this is a financial

you just got fired you

well you're not making money for them anymore

so you're no longer of value

um and

and then to get back to so that's kind of like the

the

like bigger systems that are at play

but within the athlete experience you um

there's a grief process there's a often times a

a realization that your

your full potential was not actualized um

that you now you you don't know how to make friends

because you're now in the real world

and your friends have always been athletes

but you don't know how

you don't have to make friends as an athlete

you're just friends with your teammates

yeah and when you go into the real world you um

you don't know where the athletes are

because there's so few of you

at honestly there are so few athletes

like they're just kind of hiding right

um and then

what everybody seems to tell the athlete is that hey

go get a job

like as if that's going to solve everything

and let me tell you it's like one of

there's so many services out there that are connecting

athletes to employers

and it's the biggest like misconception

I think like athletes I can't tell you how many

say they get into a job

and then they start questioning everything

1 it starts with their agitation

like meaning

they're sitting at the desk

and they don't know how to sit in a desk

like they just it's so hard

because they are used to moving their bodies

six to eight hours a day right

and then it's like as they've been sold this

this vision that if you get a job

oh you're gonna be happy like and everything you know

everything solves itself that is so not the case

like what happens with athletes is when they leave

they are actually behind their non athlete peers

yeah and the reason for that is because the non

at

their non athlete peers have spent 4 years in college

having um

having you know

applied to internships having done the internships

have had jobs you know

they've yeah

they're doing worky stuff

you're doing yeah

I mean they're trying to enter into the real world yeah

um and all

you know in order

but in order to get a job or an internship

there's so many things that have to take place

before that but with athletes

they don't have the time they don't have like

it's mostly a time issue but also energy issue sure

um anyway

so that's that's part of the dynamic

um you're an athlete's relationship to food changes

right an athlete goes from fueling their body to eating

and you don't really know how to eat

when you're not training

you're not expending six calories

or 6,000 calories a day yeah

I mean and that

and then that touches on another thing is

an athlete has been training nearly their entire life

right and I use the word training very carefully

because training and exercise are way

two separate things that's true

and they are on very opposite ends of the spectrum

yeah and so when an athlete is on their own

they don't know how to exercise

which sounds really weird to say

because they've had professionals supporting them

and their technique

and improving their strength and agility

and all that stuff what to do and when to do it

and show up at this time

and do these drills and all that stuff yeah

yeah all that

I mean they just don't know how to exercise for fun

like going on a walk is not exercise to an athlete

you know yeah

yeah it's like

the difference between being in an orchestra

and being a solo guitarist

I imagine I don't know

I'm not familiar with the music world yeah

well I mean

I mean just like you're part of this grand thing

you're part of this big team

you've got your your sheet music laid out

you have it's

it's very highly planned

and you're doing that same thing versus owning

having your own domain and your own

like you've got to write your own songs

and you have to do your own thing

and you have to book your own gigs

and you have to do all of that stuff

and those are skills I mean ostensibly

oh well

both of them are playing music

but but the

the skills that are required to be successful

as a solo musician are way different than the

skills that are required to be

successful as part of a team yeah

I mean this actually reminds me of like when

when you're an elite athlete

you're part of a system where a lot of support is

is provided to you right

not only your scholarship but um

also like you're provided um

student athlete housing right

and so but a

a non a non athlete peer

they have to go find their own apartment

they have to apply to those

they have to um

you know find a way to get um

car insurance or you know

any of those things and so the non athlete peers are

you know slowly developing skills that are

what an adult would have and then a student athlete is

it's just

they're just so behind because quite literally

all they've been doing is their sport

and their studies yeah

that's fascinating and so

and so how do you

how do you bridge that gap with home team

yeah so with home team um

so we have an emphasis on retired and injured athlete

mental health and

the reason that we focus on these areas is

because this is where we see the most gaps in care

so um

to touch on the injury piece real quick

um when an athlete becomes injured there I

I really like to call it it's

it's an injury of isolation

because you are taken away from your team um

not intentionally but like for example

when the team is practicing

you're not practicing you're not even in the gym

to be honest

you're in the training room with all of the other

injured athletes yeah

if if even that um

you're no longer traveling you um

you might be eating with your team

but maybe not you know

I mean it's just it's

it's a really difficult time

and so during retirement and injury

this is when we see a lot of mental health issues

come up yeah

and um

the normal like

the rate of mental health issues is about 30% around

amongst the general population

and so we see that um

not only with the athletes

but in there is

in fact

an increase in mental health issues during those times

so one of the things that we're looking

or that we're doing is

we've created a community of retired

injured and current athletes

along with all of the professionals

that are in the athlete ecosystem

community is a huge part of the solution

just knowing that you're not alone

yeah right

I thought it was a me problem

and it's it's just not

like this is a systemic level failure on all athletes

all athletes retire all

most athletes at some point are going to become injured

right it's part of the game

and so right now there are zero resources

my friend's book that described the cliff effect

no next steps no

no resources for athletes to reach out to

but I want to just point out

that is not a critique of her

no it's just because the

it's not there no

it's a critique of the system

it's a critique of the system and there are always

if you do the math like the math

math's out like

there are always more retired athletes

than there are current athletes

always of course

yeah of course

right

but think of all of the people that are being failed

yeah right

they they've been

um historically they've been taken advantage of

and financially financially taken advantage of

um their bodies are taken advantage of

I can't tell you

like all the aches and pains that I have

like it's you know

I mean I've met with 22 year olds and they need like

reconstructive surgery on their ankles

like what like what the f

you know um

so yeah anyway what

what elite sports does to your body is very

is it's a lot it's a big toll

um you're trading your body for an education

it's it's a lot

uh so

so community is at the foundation of we're home team

one of the things that we provide to

to this to this ecosystem of athletes

and the professionals in it

um within our community

we also have weekly programming of events

so different professionals

can come in and talk about different subjects

um that support the athletes and

and the people working in the field

and then the other

the next thing that we're building is a

um we're calling it a service based marketplace

if you have a better word

I would love to hear your thoughts actually

I think that's a I think that's a great term

well it's a yeah

it's cause marketplace has it

it sounds very like transactional

um yeah

but one of the systemic failures right now is that

it is can be very difficult

for an athlete to find mental health care

yeah and also their help seeking behaviors

the help seeking behaviors are

which means like when an athlete is in need of support

yeah will they go get help or will they not

and often times they will not

so okay

why is that one it could be um

their time is so like

demanded of that

it's hard for them to go

walk all the way across their campus

to the um

counseling and Psychological Services yeah

like that they might not know where to go

and it's also still or they may not know where to go

or they may not even have access to clinicians

um let's see what else um

another thing that curtails help seeking behaviors is

um confidentiality yeah

so often times

depending on the level of the athletic department

and how much funding they have

they may now have clinician

mental health clinicians but they're

the athletes fear that

they're in communication with the coaches and

you know they

they're they're fearful for their playing time

fearful for their NBA money

like I mean

there's so many different um

like things that take play that can prevent it

like social media stuff yeah right

I mean to go back to

to being an influencer

if it gets out that you're having

you know anxiety attacks

like I don't know

who knows like people are always bashing them online

like they don't need any more fuel to yeah

to you know

attack them um

so anyway um

the marketplace that we're building

centralizes the existing resources around the country

in one location that is for all

for athletes centric care

um with vetted providers

um who were athletes themselves

um and understand

you know what they're going through

I love that offering that is

I can imagine how powerful that is

it sounds like I mean

it basically sounds like you went and built

all the stuff that you wish existed

when you were 22 yeah

no I

I mean it's not all built yet

but we are built sure

yeah but that's the vision

yeah I mean yeah

that's the vision let's go

let's go have 22 year old Emily Houston

not suffer the way that she suffered and

and make sure that the the next one

you know has resources at her disposal 100% 100%

I mean when I connected with my former teammate

and read her book that was just published

you know a year or two ago

yeah um

I honestly could not believe

that after 20 years of being retired

or nearly 20 years um

15 years maybe um

that this the

the landscape had not changed yeah

it just absolutely

maybe it's even gotten worse because of nil

because of the intense pressure that's on there

and it's actually getting earlier and earlier

it's becoming that way in club sports now

and that sort of thing it's

it's it's intense out there yeah

yeah

yeah well

I hope I hope it gets better I mean

I hope that I hope that you're right in your

in your optimism that

the kinds of things that these athletes

need in order to thrive are coming online

and you know

I know that that home team is is is part of that um

but it's gonna take a lot more than that

and it's gonna take a lot of awareness of

of parents and a lot of awareness in the community

to make sure that you know

people don't need to sacrifice their mental health

or their bodies for the four years they get to play

volleyball in high

in college right yeah

yeah you know

to to take this back to men I

I want to point out that um

80% of deaths by by of by suicide

yup are by men right and

death by suicide amongst NCA

athletes has recently risen

to the second leading cause of death

amongst amongst athletes yeah

that's I mean so it is terrifying statistics

second leading cause of death yeah

second leading cause of death

and it just recently came up from the third um so

you know to me

this is not an option like we need to do

we need to mobilize we need to

we need to change things yeah

we ourselves need to change right

and um

this is

one of the reasons that I care so much about male

athlete mental health

and not just athletes

but male and young boys mental health

yeah is because of the tragedies that we're seeing

this is a loss to the world right

I mean it's a loss to their families

it's a loss to their friends

it's a loss to their future and their potential

and you know

often times somebody makes a

a decision that cannot be reversed

in the matter of 20 minutes

is statistically what has been found

so an example of

you know

where we're seeing systemic gaps in terms of these

like these inflection points

or these transitions that athletes go through

there was a young man named Marshawn Neiland

who recently died by suicide

he had he did have mental health issues when he was

I believe it was at the university of Michigan

where he was a football player

and in fact from

from what I've read there

um

during his four or

four or five years that he was an athlete at

at the university there were two um

two wellness checks that were made on him

because people were concerned for his safety

and well being and so it was very well known

in fact I think it was even the coaches that had

one of the coach had made one of the phone calls

and so it was very well known

I think another was a teammate

so this was not

you know Marshawn was not struggling in silence

yeah many

many do but he

I mean people obviously knew that he was

was not well and so

then he graduates and he transitions to the NFL

and he's a rookie and as you just said he

he had his first touchdown and then he um

died by suicide and

but where what

what like

where was the transfer of information

from the university to his NFL football team

yeah I mean

this is there should have been a red flag for him

you know that this is a young man who's needing help

and he was obviously failed

you know this suicide is extremely preventable

right and um

honestly it really just takes checking in on people

like that may sound like an oversimplification

but if you can if you see somebody who's struggling

asking them how they're really doing

and not skirting around the issue can save a life

yeah

so you know

I don't know what happened with

like his transition from the university to NFL um

but

you know it absolutely could have been prevented if

if there was more support and more care and

and also if there was

likely less stigma around him seeking help

yeah yeah I think that's a real

a cute aspect of the masculinity crisis is

you know

there's this vision of masculinity

of a man as the lone wolf and the indestructible wall

and and so that works against seeking help or even

even consciously acknowledging that

you're going through something difficult right

it it it's

it's like the information isn't even accessible to you

yeah because of your conditioning and

and that goes double for an athlete

because especially in an elite athletics

a significant portion of it is pushing through the pain

it's performance is what it is

I mean you have to perform right yeah

and you can't you can't be weak

you know you

I mean I'm not saying they can't be weak

in their personal lives like

and weak is such a it's such a bad word anyway

like because

just cause you're struggling

does not mean that you're weak

by the way that's right

you know like that

so I don't want to suggest that

but when you're performing

you are performing right

you're being paid for this

you I mean

stakes are very high the stakes are very

very high right

and uh yeah

so it's difficult to to unmask

I would say and especially for men

yeah it

it's I can imagine it

it applies to to everybody but

but I mean 80% of the suicides are men yeah

that's something we gotta step in and work on yeah

I I'm

you know use the word hope

earlier and I think there is hope

I think that I know I know that this is the path

I know I know that this is the path

in terms of what home team is doing

and the reason

this maybe sound like overconfident or something but

but the reason that I that I

I want to state that so clearly

is

because of the signals that we get from these athletes

and they tell us time and again

how much they appreciate what we're doing

and how much this is needed

and I have a startup and I've

I have nine people volunteering their time wow

nine people men and women and of different colors

to try and create change

this is how much that means to people

people don't work for free yeah

they're bought in yeah

but these people are they are working for free

because they understand how acutely

and how critically this needs to change now

not tomorrow today

you know so um

but I do wanna say that in terms of hope

what I do have hope for is

that we see more and more athletes

getting involved in their personal journey

with mental health we see more high profile athletes

speaking about their mental health

and I'd like to put out a call to action

uh especially as it relates to home team

is having athletes come and speak uh for

for the advocacy of mental

uh mental health and home team

but really for everybody

for all athletes and the people

outside of the athletic world

people really Revere athletes

athletes are put on pedestals

they are seen as superhuman

and my belief is that if home team is successful

we will be able to like

have this butterfly effect throughout the world

because when people see their idols and

you know

these people that they have for years put on pedestals

that they too will say OK

I can I can go get help too

if they can do it I can do it

yeah you know

so um

so that is my hope my hope is that

home team is able to successfully reach the masses and

and help not just athletes

but all of the people that are touched by athletes

yeah I think in

in this work that I've been doing for this podcast

one of the real through lines

in a lot of the experts that I've been speaking to

and everything is about how vulnerability is an unlock

and it it feels

it feels unsafe vulnerability does

but then once you kind of understand and embrace it and

and actually express it the way that your friend did

when she wrote that book

and talked about falling off the cliff

that was an unlock for you when you read it

and it was an unlock for her when she shared it

and that goes it

it is the butter that is

that Butterfly Effect is absolutely real and

and it feels like

it feels like it won't be perceived

um and I remember going through this actually it

it happened in a conversation that you and I had

where I shared with you that I was doing this podcast

and I was almost embarrassed to share that with you

and your response buoyed me in a way

that was really hard

I mean I

I haven't felt that in a long time or

you know it's

it's a rare feeling for me

what is you the

the the

the response that that you had

when I told you that I was doing this podcast

on this subject

and I was

I was so trepidacious about sharing that information

and yet you were so passionately in favor of it

that it made me feel like wow

I'm really like this is

I really do need to do this as opposed to feeling

I don't know a little bit instead of hiding or

or having shame and

you know I think that so vulnerability is

vulnerability takes

being humble

and yeah because humble

when we're humble

like in being vulnerable we have to ask

we're asking for help you know

and so we have to be humble and in order to do that

and so that is one of the unlocks

I believe to vulnerability is being humble and um

and I'm so glad that you were vulnerable with me

you know because here we are

and having this amazing conversation right

and I mean I just think that the topic of um

men and boys and masculinity today is something that

just needs more attention

and people need to understand how

you know men and boys are suffering

they're really really suffering yeah

you know and um

yeah and

and if your response to that is well

you know

they deserve it because they're part of the patriarchy

well

yeah that's not gonna get us anywhere

you know and so it's like

because it's not the zero sum game right

and so my my belief in one of

I mean I okay

I will say that I I have been a part of the problem

I have been a fierce

and I still am a fierce advocate for men

oh sorry

for women and girls yeah

um at the expense of men and boys though

and that's how I've shifted right

is that I if

I mean I have had so many like assaults from men right

not and not necessarily rape

although that has happened

I will say um

so but so many different varying types of assaults from

from men that have been perpetrated by men

that if we women aren't helping them

then we like it just continues to get worse yeah

and that's what we're seeing actually

I mean not to right

because it's it's the us against them mentality

that's what it okay

fine if you're gonna pit yourselves against each other

then it's just gonna be destructive yeah

I mean we truly need each other

we need to lift each other up um

I mean it's

we're going down a dark path and

you know the uh boys

you know it's our responsibility

we are the adults like

we need to create an environment for them to thrive

and you know

I I think it kind of goes back to this like

message that the athletes are receiving is

you to be human it's okay to be human

and part of the human experience is

having a range of emotions

you know which suck

it sucks you know

to be depressed it sucks to be anxious

it sucks to be uncertain you know

all these things

but all of these things are totally normal

and it's universal everybody feels that it's universal

and and help and sharing that is

it's invigorating actually

yeah so I really appreciate the work that you're doing

thank you for thank you so much

I I like to uh

finish up these conversations by asking everybody

more or less the same question

so I'll put you on the spot OK

um if there's one principle

what a kind of an operating principle that you think is

is a good operating principle to live by

what would it be

I think modeling is important

um

modeling what it's like to be vulnerable

modeling what it's like to be frustrated

modeling all of the different range of emotions

and sharing that with your child

yeah um

like for example you get cut off by somebody

right and instead of like screaming or whatever it is

like you know

yeah and your child's in the back seat right

um they're like

oh man

like I am really frustrated right now and

you know somebody just cut me off

yeah and actually

maybe screaming is part of that

but you're not screaming in an ineffectual way

at this other person about what a jerk they are

you're screaming at gosh man

I'm feeling really really bad right now

I am yeah

I am feeling really really frustrated

like I can't believe you know

like I got cut off and I am just so upset right now

like you know um

but I think we need to model more of these behaviors

and um

model more of these emotions

and model how we handle our emotions right

it's okay to be sad like

we need to show our children that we are sad

because we are human

right like

we need to show them that we're human

and I I think that that goes such a long way yeah

um and then to the men specifically

I would say give yourself Grace and um

and you know

you said use the word kindness

but I do believe in the power of um

being kind to oneself

because if we can be kind to ourselves

then we can be kind to other people

yeah and um

I'll leave you with this one of my favorite quotes is

it's a Buddhist quote and it says um

peace in oneself peace in the world

yeah

I think that's a beautiful place

and Emily thank you so much for bringing

your vulnerability and your perspective

this conversation

I'm so excited for what you are doing with Home Team

and I just know that it's gonna

knock the ball out of the park

to use a sports metaphor

Emily Houston is the CEO and founder of Home Team

you can visit her work at hometeamgo.com

the link is in the show notes

and remember you are a great parent

raising men is produced by Phil Hernandez

this episode was edited by Ralph Tolentino