Welcome back to Raising Men.
I'm here once again with Ryan Riley, who's joined me to walk to go through some of the
work that they've been doing in in his metaphor project.
Ryan, welcome back to Raising Men.
Hey, thanks, Sean.
Really appreciate it.
So give us a little bit of context of what about what we're about to go through.
We've got you've got a survey on your website and tell me about what's the motivation
behind that survey, why should I go through it and then and then we're gonna s we're gonna
share it and I'm gonna be as honest as possible going going through that stuff.
Perfect.
it's it's interesting.
Is Metaphor is a new company that that that we're creating and it's designed around
personal development, leadership development, health and wellness.
And we've identified there's three things that motivate people: money, relationship, and
then sense of purpose.
Those are the three things in in across the board.
If you look at every if you look at every behavioral science out there, they focus in on.
You know, those concepts of of that drive you, your your money and and and your personal
security, your relationships and your connection, community, and your sense of purpose,
your own sense of purpose.
And so what we're doing at Metaphor is we're really leaning into helping people understand
what life can be.
And because we've identified there's and there's a lot of projects that we're working on,
a lot of frameworks that we're building.
But the first one that we that we started in is is all about a transitional period.
Men specifically, and it's not it's not only towards men, but I've I've found in the
conversations I've had with men, as they go through transitional periods, they start to
lose a sense of purpose.
A perfect example.
A really good friend of mine, he they they had a they they have a single, they have one
kid.
Who just graduated from high school and they dropped him off at college.
And now my son, I I I was talking to my my my buddy, and he's like, What do I do now?
Because
my entire purpose has been to raise him, help him be successful day in, day out, and now
he's.
here I am.
I I've spent all this time folding this paper airplane and I just threw the paper
airplane.
What is what all I can do is watch.
and it's this moment of transitional period where I think men, midlife crisis comes in.
I talked a little bit about that.
That that the and they start looking outwards for what's my next thing, and they look
outwards.
~ when
really what you need to do is look inward.
You need to
I had I had a guest named Eric Davis going on I don't know maybe maybe six months ago now.
He's a former Navy SEAL.
He actually wrote a book called Raising Men.
And and that was part of the inspiration, this entire show.
And and and I had him on there on the show, and he talked about purpose.
He he he and he made the comment, and I love this, is and it sticks with me.
Which is that purpose is what allows you to say no to things.
And that's the saying no to things is the superpower.
Saying being, when you're younger, we have to be so opportunistic in order to just we're
just trying to capture every tiny little scrap of value that we can.
But then as we become older, we have more, we're we're able to focus our stuff on higher
and higher level activities.
And if you don't know what your purpose is, if you don't if you don't really have a have a
great sense of that, then you're just gonna wind up flitting around, never, you know, just
doing ten percent of everything and never actually finish getting anything checked off
your list.
And yeah.
Ben Hardy in his book The Science of Scaling, he talks about raising the floor and
and changing your focus because if you raise your floor, everything that falls underneath
your floor is no longer important.
Be you've set your purpose, right?
You've
set that opportunity.
And and I love that concept, exactly what you said, is in and is being able to establish
purpose in life.
And the challenge is that as men,
dude, we we constantly are looking outward for validation for ref like opportunity for
opportun like entrepreneurship opportunity, this drive, everything is focused
outward.
That in those moments of transition, in the moments where things really matter most, you
need to turn around and look inward.
And that's what this survey is designed to do.
It's designed in a moment of of of transition to help somebody reflect inward rather than
outward.
Well, I love that.
So with that, let's go ahead and pull up the survey and and talk about the first question.
So there's some demographic questions that I've already gone through.
~ this is kind of we're we're we're we're starting at about question four.
And the very first question that is in the meat of what you're talking about is I know who
I am.
And ~ so go ahead, ri riff on that for why is this the first question?
And I think I know why.
we hit people freaking square in the face.
If if they can honestly answer who they they know who they are at this point and moment in
their life, ~ that's great.
That's amazing.
I want that, but I want them to hit first to be able to have that self-reflection because
this is an internal question.
This is a question that points inward, saying, Okay, who am I really?
Do I really know who I am?
I know what I've been doing, I know where life has put me.
I know where I'm at, but do I know who I am?
And that's a it it's a it's an inward question, it's probably the most prof profound
inward question that you could ask yourself.
That I don't think we ask ourselves enough.
Yeah, yeah.
And so it's a good excuse to do it.
I'm gonna go ahead and say agree here.
I think I have a good idea who I am.
Although, you know, I feel like I probably could have some work, I probably have some work
I could do or that I should do on that.
So we'll go from there.
~ I feel like the same person across different parts of my life.
~ I'm gonna I'm gonna go ahead and say strongly agree with that.
I
seeing
that that that question's important because it shows
consistency is is is everything in the game.
If you truly
know who you are and you're consistent in that in that manner, then then then you're
you're standing up in areas.
And I I and I tell you, I know people personally who they and and and I'll gonna point
this as a teenager.
Okay, so here's from a t teenage standpoint.
I was a different kid at home than I was at school.
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I I can specifically remember at school language, man, I you you swear like you're a
sailor.
And then as soon as you as
soon as you cross that that door, as soon as you come into the home, all of sudden, those
you don't even think about using that language.
Right.
You know what I mean?
And that's just a perfect example of do you feel like the same person across different
parts of your life?
Are you the same person at work than you are at home?
Are you the same person?
definitely gone through occasions in my life where I I would I would disagree or strongly
disagree with the statement.
But I'm I tend I happen to be in a phase of my life where I feel particularly integrated.
~
it's a great place to be.
yeah, I understand what makes me me.
Let's think about that for a minute.
That's a different question than do you know who you are?
Right?
Because
what makes you you?
What what do you live for?
What is your purpose?
What is the important things in your life that make you and and let me give you example.
I was sitting at a I was sitting at a conference.
~ and you know when you're in those rooms, they they have the card on your desk and you
fill out your name and then they ask you a question that's kind of like the icebreaker
question.
And then they get you around, they say, Hey, four of you guys get together and talk about
your question.
Yeah.
Well, the c the question that was on the card, and this was this hit me hard.
~ the question that was on the card was, and this is probably the motivation for a lot of
things that have come from from that, was what's the one word compliment you get most
often?
And was like, wow.
Without even thinking about it, I wrote down data.
Interesting.
And for me, the biggest the greatest compliment that I have is that my boys that are
twenty to twenty seven still want to call me dad.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
That it's a compliment from them.
I love that.
I understand what makes me me is that
Yeah.
that opportunity to be that example to them make is is greater than anything else.
Like the the relationship that my wife and here's the here's the other side of this.
The fact that my four boys, three of them are married, two of them have kids, and they're
you know, married before they were 25, you know.
I look at that and I look at the relationship my wife and I have is and and the examples
that we set for them, that made them want to have that same thing.
You know what I mean?
doing something right if if you're modeling the i if if they choose to do the same to to
follow
your model.
So that that th that's the idea for understanding what makes me me is is
So I'm gonna go ahead and say I agree to this about this.
But you know what?
But as I'm I will make a distinction here between understanding what makes me me and being
comfortable and happy with that.
And I I I ~ I'll I'll be interested to see.
Yeah, yeah, let's
see.
I have a clear sense of purpose.
I do agree with that.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
I don't know that a lot of people can answer that question.
Right.
~ we happen to be having this conversation and doing this survey while I'm recording an
episode of a passion project that is spending where I'm spending an inordinate amount of
time and money ~
to to kind of do something that that like I I just do it because I'm I I wanna get some
messages out there to the world and I wanna try to make an impact and all that stuff.
It it's I'm coming from a little bit of a different place.
~ than
I think I would have been if we were doing this a year ago.
Yeah.
Well and and that's the beauty of this is that there's still time.
You know, there was a there there was a quote that a a buddy of mine sent me and he and
and we're talking constantly about time and the the the importance of time and and the
quote talked about ~ the average millionaire like the the average millionaire becomes a
millionaire when he's fifty-two years old.
Wow.
Right.
the average entrepreneur is like forty-eight.
You
look at guys, you look at like the the Colonel Sanders, you look at Mc those dudes didn't
start until they were in their fifties and sixties.
Right?
yeah, yeah, yeah.
And there's yeah, that's interesting.
Yeah.
Yeah.
There's
always there's almost always time.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I love that.
So I would go ahead and strongly agree w with this sentiment right now.
I I I feel strongly
about that.
I am moving s towards something I care about.
Now that's interesting.
My reflex is just to answer that the same way because it's because I
Feels like the same question to me, but there's a distinction between I'm moving something
I care about and my life is meaningful.
My life could be meaningful, but I'm not moving something.
Yeah, I'm I I'm with you.
here that's a little bit underlying, and I want and I want to make sure that we understand
that is I believe that there is a constant variable in our lives called drift.
Okay.
Drift is a constant variable and and drift occurs, drift happens.
Drift is a it drift is neither good nor bad.
Drift unaware, if we don't take if we're not if we're unaware of drift and we don't take
intentional action to either
examine it or correct it, then it then then our choices are limited of what and and our
outcomes might be could possibly be very damaging.
But there's this idea of drift in our life.
So the quest the reason why that question's important is because do you truly know where
you're moving towards?
And is that same is that direction that you've anticipated the same today as it was last
week.
You know what I mean?
And and
and it think about it this way when you're driving a car, how many corrections do you make
constantly while you're driving that car?
You and those
per second, yeah, right.
and and and not only that, but you do them because of just the habit of doing them,
because it's programmed into you to be able to respond to the interactions.
There's not all the time that you have to take make major changes because something
occurs, but you're making constant adjustments or else you will drift off course.
And and I think life needs we need to be better at making constant adjustments within our
life and understand that just because we drifted doesn't bad.
Just because we made a mistake or maybe we interacted poorly with our kids at a time, it's
not a bad thing.
We just need to make sure we're making the adjustments on a daily basis so that we can be
able to maintain the course and the trajectory that we plant.
Yeah, I I'm with you.
I I think that one of one of the lessons that I have had to learn along those lines is
that ~ excellence isn't about doing things perfectly.
Doing things perfectly is something you can only approach asymptotically, meaning you can
only get closer and closer and closer and never actually reach it.
Excellence is about making the errors smaller.
And
So that you can pay attention to, so yeah, if I'm if I'm shooting a bow and arrow,
excellence for me might just be hitting the target at all.
And then and then next time I go out, I'm able to hit the target reliably and get closer
and closer to the bullseye every time.
And then eventually if I go to the Olympics, then excellence is getting a bullseye nine
out of ten shots.
And that's that's that's excellence.
And you can practice excellence.
even though you suck at something, right?
And ~ yeah, so ~ so okay, I'm gonna go ahead and agree to moving something toward I care
about, but I I get distracted and so I'm not gonna give myself a strong leader.
I handle difficult emissions well.
I this is a superpower of mine.
I I'm very measured.
I don't react in the moment typically.
I my in fact my reflex is typically to kind of back off and slow down.
~ I handle I handle that sort of thing pretty well.
~ and I yeah, I I'm I'm pretty cerebral about that sort of thing.
What is it?
packing the car.
That's my that's
that that to me, that is my gem.
I had my I can ~ I should show you pictures.
I have some pictures of us as the entire family driving through Europe where I pack that
the back of that van exactly the way it should be.
Okay.
But when I'm in the middle of it, don't mess with me.
Because I am in Tetris mode.
You know what I mean?
It's like
That's that's really the only time, and my whole family knows it.
The boys all know it.
They're like, back up, dad's doing his thing.
Like, that's my chism.
When I when I was a kid, it was it was putting up the Christmas decorations.
My mom.
So my mom used she used to absolutely crush Christmas.
She just Christmas was her favorite holiday.
She just loved it.
She and I mean she wanted a house full of joy and warmth, the Christmas decorations and
all that stuff.
So I mean, it was the day after Thanksgiving, the Christmas decorations went up.
New Year's, they went down, and it was it was very highly regimented.
And it was up to me and my dad and the rest of the boys to put them up.
And we all hated it.
I mean, we hated it with a passion of a thousand sons.
And we never planned for it.
And we didn't actually like there was never a there was never a structure or a plan or
anything like that.
It was just like, hey boys, let's go put up the Christmas decorations.
And like we're in the middle of what playing video games or doing whatever we wanted to
do.
And now we have to do this awful thing.
We would get in these enormous fights about it.
It was it was so I I I feel you with packing the car.
son my son calls that my tism.
That's my autism.
That's my tism.
Interesting.
Okay.
Well so
handle to most days I feel steady.
Yeah, I gotta strongly agree with that.
I I'm again like ~ th this is somet that's something I'm pretty good at.
I trust myself to handle what comes.
I would also strongly agree with that.
~ maybe irrationally.
see if somebody's in the middle of a transition point in
100%.
100%.
Yeah, I'm getting the sense.
can have.
Yeah, this is a this is tremendously valuable.
And yeah, and and I mean I can even see, like actually, I feel like I fare pretty well on
the overall sentiment of this, but you know, it's it's bringing to light a bunch of places
where there's opportunity for improvement.
I speak up for what I need.
You know what?
I'm going to disagree with that.
~
And this is an interesting I'll be interested to see how this plays out in the scoring.
~ okay, okay.
In the what whatever conclusions.
Yeah.
I speak yeah, so this is interesting.
I I don't I think most people probably fail to speak up for what they need because
They feel like they don't deserve what they need or they're afraid to do it.
I don't suffer from either of those things.
I fail to speak up for what I need because I don't have conscious awareness of what I
need.
I am so wired just to do shoulder to the grindstone and blast through the obstacles that I
don't take the opportunity to ask whether it's even appropriate for the obstacle to be
there.
And that's that's a problem, actually, because I'll end up like
I'll end up just living in a way that isn't conducive to what I want.
And I need to take the opportunity to step back and go, all right, am I, ~ do I really
have the right organization for my desk?
And, ~ am I living the right and I I don't I don't do that enough.
So I'm definitely gonna disagree with that for that reason.
Well and the key there is speak up for it.
Do you voice it, right?
Because a lot of how
many t how many men do you know are quietly going through life?
Just accepted.
of men lead lives of quiet desperation.
That's the nature of the quiet desperation that he was talking about
is I don't recognize what I need and speak up about it.
I am absolutely feel capable of learning new things.
That's another one of my what I consider to be my superpowers.
I have people I can be honest with.
I definitely do.
Not as many as I wish I had.
~ but you know, how many do you really need?
You don't honestly, you only need you only need a handful.
Your wife,
hopefully your wife, is somebody that you could be the most honest with.
And
one or two or three good friends that you can lean on.
I feel.
~ I feel connected to the people around me.
I'm gonna go ahead and disagree with that.
In a lot of ways I feel disconnected to the people around me, including my including my
spouse and including my kids.
A lot of times I feel disconnected.
I know how to ask for support.
Yeah, right.
it's it's so
~ go ahead, what were you to say?
No, it's so funny because in the in the eighties, right, when when when GPS phone maps
weren't around, the the joke was, ~ men don't ask for directions.
Right?
Dude,
men still don't ask for directions.
No, yeah, exactly.
We just don't need we it's not about asking directions, it's about it's about being
vulnerable and and all
that stuff.
I I'm gonna go ahead and agree with this.
I know I'm gonna say neither.
I I feel like yeah, I'm gonna I'm gonna I'm gonna say neither.
I cause I do know how, but I'm not sure that I I that I do it.
I agree that I'm becoming more of who I wanna be.
Right, and that's progress daily one and it
Yeah.
it's it's one percent rule.
If I can be one percent better than I was yesterday, I'm doing better.
Making
tremendous progress.
Yeah.
I take time to reflect on how I'm changing.
You know what?
I have to disagree with this.
I do not take sufficient time.
like journaling, self reflection, morning meditation?
Those opportunities are powerful.
used to and I've gotten out of the practice of it.
And ~ that is an area of opportunity for me.
No question about that.
No question about that.
~ I'm absolutely open to being wrong about myself.
I'm gonna strongly agree to that.
I have it pointed out to me constantly how I'm wrong about myself and I love to hear it,
actually.
It's sometimes doesn't feel great, but it's okay.
Which questions are on my mind right now?
I'm going to
I'm gonna go ahead say this one.
What do I want next?
I I think that's probably the best on this list for me.
it's interesting.
It's it's a it's a great response to that because I think that again, thinking through
this from a transitional period, like when you're
going through transition.
What is that next thing?
You you you build your career, you build your like, and then all of sudden, what's next?
Right?
It's it
I'm in that situ I am in that kind of transitional state where, I'm I'm I'm going from one
phase of life into another another into another phase of life.
And and so that's that's a natural question.
By the way, it's a good question.
You should always maybe you'll always be asking yourself that.
Maybe that's maybe that's the the thing that and that's the reason you're doing the
journaling and and all that stuff that I'm failing to do is so that you can get you can
get visibility into that question for yourself.
Which of these feels the most alive for you right now?
Same same questions.
So
What do what w what do you mean by most alive on this?
~
it's I no, I appreciate the clarity ~ in that.
It's yeah, what
like which ones are you most passionate about right now?
Like for me,
Why I'm here really feels good to me.
I know what I'm doing, I know the answer to that.
I have a sense of that
because of this passion project that I've been on, that I've been able to incorporate into
a company with my boys being a part of, with this concept of creating frameworks around
drift and things that we've been talking about, like that is so alive to me right now.
~ and and and I really honestly believe that the voice, the audience,
Will come as we do this because it's it's it's an important, powerful thing.
So it's like where where do you feel most alive in what you're doing in response to the
answers to these questions?
Yeah, I I I think th what actually matters to me i is probably the that really comes out.
That that that in sharp relief if I think about that in in those terms.
~ what is challenging you most right now?
~
We're asking you to open the kimono on your pod
show, dude.
And you no Edadine, this is raw right here.
un uncomfortably ~ open is is one of my mod mo mottos here.
~ I would definitely say family.
And
Work and career, since that's in transition for me.
Really struggle.
~ my physical health is actually quite good.
My mental health I've I feel good about.
~
Yeah, I think I think that's probably right.
finances are always something that that I worry about.
~
but it's not a particular challenge.
the three things we discussed was finances and security, relationship and purpose, right?
And and
and you pulled in two of those out of
this.
Yeah, right.
You're right.
What do I want more of?
Definitely I would so more is the options are more clarity, more confidence, a clearer
direction, a real community.
That's one that I definitely more peace, I would definitely say.
~ financial stability is top on my list.
Top, top, top on my real list.
And ~
thing about
it, I'm in the greatest financial situation that I've ever been in in my life.
And I still feel like I think
Same here.
that financial stability is still like and it's interesting that that is still something
that I'm concerned about.
And I'm concerned about future wise.
I'm concerned about growth and and opportunities and then being able to provide.
You know, when you're in a position where you can create jobs for others, it changes the
level of
stability that you're looking for.
~
and again it's that it's those three things that we come down to it.
But I think community is an interesting one too because community is so powerful.
Community creates the
opportunities for you to have those experiences with others.
I think I think men really well, we talked about this, about that men really struggle to
make community.
And
~ and I I certainly do.
Which of these matters most?
It's the same list.
More clarity, confidence, clear direction.
I I mean the last question was what do I want more of?
What matters most?
Financial stability, you only get to choose two.
Huh.
I'm gonna go ahead and say financial stability and energy.
yeah, I think yeah, that's what I'm gonna say about that.
How do you like to learn?
I listen and read.
No, I do.
I actually I listen, I read and I do.
Yeah.
Yeah, I so I'm dyslexic, ~ ADHD and the ability to create like once audiobooks became so
consumable, like
the audiobook, the physical book and the activities going forward is are huge.
So
I agree with everything you said there.
Yeah, yeah.
Would you consider joining a program that helps you work on some of what you name?
Shh, I would always consider that.
So yes, no, or not sure.
I will say yes.
If I did, what format would work based?
Definitely ooh, this is interesting.
I would say self paced in a cohort.
~
yeah.
I would say those yeah.
And I I've been involved in ~ mastermind groups and that thing all my whole life and it
it's been really, really valuable.
And and I do like to I'm an introvert, so I like to ~ go off in my corner and and and just
plug away at things.
So th th those are the two questions.
So the other options are one on one with a coach or mentor in person, online, a mix, I'll
say self-based and a cohort.
If you can ask one question and get a real answer, what would it be?
And that's tough.
I always really, really struggle with the freeform writing questions in surveys
like this.
You can skip it.
You can skip it.
We I we don't this there's a lot of reflection goes into this.
The ~ the
freeform ones that are through here, ~ I I you get the essence of of what this is and
let's let's just we'll just thumb through the remainder of If you could ask one question
and get a real answer, what would it be?
~ what is the hardest thing about being where you are right now?
~ yeah, my question to that would or my answer to that would have to do with ~ the sense
of you know, my my whole life has kind of been on rails in the sense that I always kind of
knew what the next destination was, and I'm not in that situation now.
~ what would better actually look like six months from now?
Yeah, I pr I could probably think through some answers about that.
You know, there'd be some financial components, there'd be relationship components.
Yeah.
what are you most curious about?
I nothing comes to mind off the top of my head.
I'd have to work on that question.
~ I like it.
What would I tell my younger self?
Yeah, that that's a great question.
I
I kinda wish maybe th maybe this is a great thing for AI to do, right?
Is force me to to answer that question every week, once a week.
I
I
and and here's here's the interesting thing about that is it's easy to give somebody else
advice, but you know your history and your sum and every like we are the sum of our
experiences.
We are everything
yeah, not only that, you just have so much more grace for other people than you do for
yourself.
So if you treat yourself
like another person, that's a good exercise to do.
~ okay, let's what have I been avoiding thinking about?
Man.
I don't have an answer to that.
I and I'm kind of a worrier, I think.
And and so I think about everything.
Like I don't I don't know what I avoid thinking about because I man, I I think about
everything a lot.
what has helped me the most so far?
Man, I'll tell you, this project, this this raising men podcast, ~
Yeah, part of the reason that it that I started it is because it was an exercise in
putting myself out there and ~ being uncomfortably open and and transparent about things
and authentic.
And the thing that has helped me most is it was really an act of faith to do that.
~ and it was ~
And there was fear associated with it because you just never know how it was it's gonna
play out.
And the response that I've gotten from my support structures and my community and
everything has been so overwhelmingly positive and supportive that that that contrast
between what I was afraid of and what what actually happened.
was really bolstering to me.
It really, really helped me.
I I I had a convers I interviewed a guy yesterday.
The the episode's not out yet, but ~ actually it we we haven't even recorded the episode.
It was a it was a just a kind of a pre-discussion to see what we would want to talk about.
And and so we'll have an episode.
And this guy's ~ whole thing was he spent fifteen years really addicted to porn.
And he comes from a religious place and
He just realized that he had gotten to a place that was really, really unhealthy.
And he prayed about it and prayed about it and prayed about it.
And he felt like God told him to go just be brutally honest with himself, with his wife,
and with the public.
And now he goes out and he talks about porn addiction and relates it to his own personal
stories and goes out and tell his own personal struggles with addiction of porn.
I can't think of something more like
more illustrative of that ~ just courage to come out and something that that is that
there's so much shame associated with it in our culture and all of that something that
you're just like truly may probably ashamed of and to just bury your soul like that, man,
that takes a lot of courage.
I'm I I just and and and here's this is coming from a guy who's like I'm doing that in
this tiny little amount and this guy's just like All right let's go I just I man I I I
really, really, really admire
Yeah, absolutely.
And I could see how that has been just empowering to you and validating also to the to the
mission that you're on to
be able to to be able to give an a platform for people to continue to to share.
Well, ~ man, I'll tell you.
~ the people that I get to connect with now and that I have an excuse to talk to and have
conversations with, i I I can't I can't believe the people I have access to now because of
this project.
It's amazing.
It's amazing.
~
I suspect this is getting close to the last question.
Is there anything else you want us to know?
I'll demure on that.
Quick look.
How old I'll say, okay, this is this is
are the answers.
And sending anonymous.
That's
all it is.
Yeah, what a that's ~ that's a beautiful exercise.
I I really ~ man, I think ~ Yeah, what a what a what a beautiful exercise.
That's that's it really makes you think about about those things.
Yeah.
us in a pro couple programs that we're getting ready to to put together.
and it's just an opportunity for people to just do some self reflection.
Look in rather than looking like
Your life is good.
Even if it's not, it can get better.
~
you've built something, and here's
and here's the deal: change is always good.
And and I'm not and I'm not saying that anybody has to buckle down and live through
torment and pain and sacrifice life for a relationship, right?
I mean, that's not what I'm saying.
What I'm saying is truly understand who you are because.
before you go forward and make changes.
Focus in so that when you do when you do look outward, you have you're rooted, you have a
better anchor to to that of who you are, so that you can be able to to better answer the
questions that are in front of
I love that sentiment.
Ryan, thank you so much again for being part of the Raising Men community, being one of
those one of those people that I feel fortunate that I am connected to and that that that
I can reach out to.
And I I love what you're doing with the Metaphor project.
And you know, I hope I definitely I know we'll keep in touch and I I I look forward to to
meeting in person one of these days.
Thanks for sharing this stuff
with us today.
Hey,
All
right, my friend.
