Shaun Dawson (00:00:01)
Welcome back to Raising Men. I'm your host, Sean Dawson. Now, if you're new to the show, normally we sit down for long form conversations with authors or psychologists or you know, even just dads who who are in the trenches, who are all trying to get to the bottom of the question about how we raise excellent sons, sons that have purpose, that are strong, that are

Yeah, have heart. But today ⁓ we are ⁓ gonna open up the listener mail bag for a QA episode. We're gonna address two specific situations from dads who ⁓ are dealing with some heavy transitions ⁓ and some cultural noise. Now, one of the real lessons that I've had ⁓ in in ⁓ doing this project is that our sons are not

just watching us. ⁓ They are becoming us. ⁓ or they're becoming the opposite of us, right? You know, they learn ⁓ they learn by our example and they learn by our counterexample. And sometimes ⁓ they're getting ⁓ the the example is the one we want to we want them to give. And sometimes it's not. And sometimes the counterexample is the one that we want them to, you know, they're they're working against

what they see from us, and that's a good thing because we don't want ⁓ them to take on ⁓ our baggage. But sometimes it's ⁓ the opposite of that, too. ⁓ today we're gonna look at what it takes ⁓ to guide a 13 year old boy through a modern rite of passage ⁓ and how to handle a teenager who's getting pulled into some of the more dark corners ⁓ of online performative masculinity.

We're gonna l ⁓ as always in episodes like this, we're gonna lean on ⁓ the collective wisdom ⁓ of our past guest to try to give you some actional actionable insights. ⁓ like I said, like I keep saying, I'm not really an expert here. I but ⁓ from this platform I've been able to talk to a lot of people who are. So let's jump straight into the first question. Our first question comes from a listener.

Shaun Dawson (00:02:28)
who's looking at his thirteen year old son ⁓ and ⁓ realizes the clock is ticking a little bit. He says, ⁓ I want to start a rite of passage for my 13 year old. What are the key principles for a modern initiation? Now, first of all, ⁓ I ⁓ just want to point out that it's great that you're

Thinking about this intentionally. I talk a lot about how the institutions that used to provide this sort of thing ⁓ for us ⁓ are crumbling ⁓ or gone. ⁓ And so ⁓ we have to s ⁓ step into the breach there and and provide it. And, you know, I also talk about how that is both a problem and an opportunity. It's a problem in the sense that it's not going to happen by default, but it's an opportunity.

In the sense that we can customize it to our own ⁓ values. A lot of fathers, I think, ⁓ you know, myself included, maybe, let this threshold pass on autopilot. You know, we're busy, we have a lot going on, we have careers and relationships to maintain and all of that. ⁓ but essentially that's just expecting your boy to magically become a man.

And a boy doesn't become a man just because he turns a certain age or goes through puberty. Those things help. But he becomes a man because ⁓ there's a community of of healthy, mature men that intentionally welcomes him into their ranks. So ⁓ what there's an episode ⁓ with former Navy SEAL master.

and master snap sniper instructor Eric Davis ⁓ during episode twenty four. ⁓ And Eric has a book called Raising ⁓ Raising Men, which is one of the ⁓ one of the inspirations for the show. ⁓ And it's called Raising Men Lessons Navy SEALs learned from their training and taught to their sons. ⁓ And ⁓

Shaun Dawson (00:04:41)
He argues that traditional masculinity hasn't failed because it was it is inherently broken. It's failing because the modern environment has changed so radically and our parenting models haven't updated to match it. So ⁓ one principle he talked about ⁓ to build your initiation around is is what Eric calls ⁓ training them ⁓ to have a bias towards action.

So you talked about how in SEAL training and in life resilience is not a static personality trait that you either have or you don't have. Resilience is a skill and it is a functional skill trained by maintaining and restoring your ability to act under stress. And eventually, if you get s ⁓ good enough at it, it's to act under ex immense stress. And as a modern boys ⁓ are

Basically drowning ⁓ in a digital world that rewards total passivity. They watch other people live instead of living themselves, potentially. So your rite of passage cannot just be a symbolic ceremony or a nice dinner where you give him some like a watch or something. It needs to be something active, an ⁓ an outdoor adventure ⁓ or a physical challenge designed around

serious responsibility. And it doesn't necessarily have to be one big thing. You know, ⁓ you don't want to set up to fail, right? You know, like if if if ⁓ if you've been sitting around watching YouTube for the past three years, okay, we're gonna do this rite of passage, we're gonna go into the woods and you're gonna have to kill a boar, right? To take an extreme example, that's not gonna work. Right? You're gonna set up to fail. ⁓ And the rite of passage should

He should be able to succeed. It should be ⁓ and if he's not in a position to succeed, well then ⁓ that's part of the the the journey as well. Eric Davis talked about how when he wants to teach his sons responsibility, he doesn't lecture them. He takes them into the mountains ⁓ and or he ⁓ puts them in the ocean ⁓ and he puts them in charge ⁓ of navigation, ⁓ of the safety gear, of the food supplies. And then

Shaun Dawson (00:07:05)
takes a step back. And if they make a mistake, they're going to experience the real world consequences of that mistake in real time. So he creates a situation where they can make mistakes, but they can make the mistakes in a way that isn't fatal, ⁓ or doesn't cause permanent damage. And then, you know, and if something is about to happen that ⁓ would cause permanent damage, he steps in. ⁓ so

you know, if they forget a piece of equipment, they're gonna be cold ⁓ or they're gonna go hungry. And it's not that's not cruel. It's about in it it it's about introducing intentional discomfort with ⁓ in a safe framework.

Shaun Dawson (00:07:53)
I hope that helps. I hope that ⁓ that that gives you some guidelines in kind of ⁓ creating ⁓ and cultivating rites of passage. Let's turn to our second question, which ⁓ I think touches on kind of a massive anxiety about running through our community. Father writes, My son ⁓ is watching Andrew Tate and Jordan Peterson, and I'm worried that he's getting toxic ideas. How do I counter this black pill masculinity?

So, first off, thank you for your honesty. I think it's ⁓ you know, kinda easy to panic ⁓ when you walk past your son's bedroom and you hear, you know

these specific voices, maybe you maybe you're familiar with them, maybe you're not, maybe you love them, maybe you hate them, you know, all sorts of things. You know, maybe, ⁓ but I I I think it can it can be easy to get alarmed potentially. ⁓ what whatever the the voices they're hearing. ⁓ And, ⁓ you know, there's this kind of black pill narrative that ⁓ is a hyper cynical algorithmic belief ⁓ that

The world is entirely rigged against young men. ⁓ And that the only solution is cold dominance, ⁓ you know, financial hoarding, a view of relationships as a zero-sum war. And that is a drug. ⁓ and it's a really potent drug. And it's a grift. And the people who are ⁓ doing that are.

Are getting rich.

Shaun Dawson (00:09:37)
By keeping your son ⁓ locked in the basement. And it doesn't seem like it is. A a lot of what they have to say is really, really good. ⁓ you know, the gateway drug is really im ⁓ r really good. I mean, how do you argue with make your bed? How do you argue with with ⁓ you know, clean your room? Right? ⁓ the and those are the things I mean I ⁓

I really have a lot of admiration for for some of what Jordan Peterson does in that respect, teaching kids responsibility and all of that. But it ⁓ then becomes packaged in stuff that I think is really unhealthy. ⁓ And ⁓ I think it's really important actually for ⁓ your boys to get exposure to this stuff. By the way, there's a whole opposite side of this coin that's just as bad.

Which ⁓ is this notion that masculinity is evil, ⁓ is to be avoided, that that that boys and men are have had their time. ⁓ And ⁓ you know, that ⁓ the kind of black pill movement ⁓ is ⁓ a reaction ⁓ and a response to that, I think. ⁓ And ⁓ I don't know, I actually

as I'm thinking it through, ⁓ it's ⁓ a feedback cycle. It's a vicious cycle where ⁓ one of those things provokes the other thing ⁓ and ⁓ makes it worse. And so the more ⁓ the more, you know, hyper woke men are evil stuff that's out there, that gives fuel to the black pilled C ⁓ the ⁓ the culture is trying to

put us down and so we need to ⁓ violently react against it stuff. ⁓ And ⁓ it's just not it's just not healthy. What it does is it creates an an us versus them mentality. ⁓ And ⁓

Shaun Dawson (00:11:53)
That's the way that bad actors

Hijack us and get us pitted against each other. And, you know, it's it's the difference between ⁓ trying to break a bundle of sticks and trying to break an individual sticks. ⁓ you know, we will all hang together or we will all hang, or we will surely all hang separately. ⁓ as ⁓ the ⁓ revolutionary war kicked off, right?

I think the important thing ⁓ is to look closely at why our boys are consuming what they're consuming. ⁓ nobody is ⁓ turning to online gurus because they want to be evil, right? ⁓ they're turning to them because ⁓ they're navigating an identity crisis. They're ⁓

Trying to figure out who they want to be. And that is ⁓ a healthy thing. It's a good thing for them to do. The problem ⁓ is ⁓ that we've created a situation where the algorithms are the only spaces telling them ⁓ that their masculine energy is valuable.

Dan Dode, ⁓ who's a pioneer in men's leadership and wellness therapy, ⁓ broke this down ⁓ in in one of our episodes. Dan explained that our culture has affected has effectively clear-cut the traditional forests of mass mu of modern masculinity. So we've dismantled the civic, spiritual, ⁓ and community institutions that used to guide boys into manhood ⁓ for us, and that has left.

Shaun Dawson (00:13:48)
A massive male vacuum. Parents end up getting ch forced to choose between that rigid aggressive archetypes celebrated online ⁓ or in film and video and books and stuff, or this empty alternative ⁓ of no masculinity at all. Right? And so ⁓ Dan Dodo ⁓ referenced some data. ⁓

where he said that roughly forty percent of young men now report having absolutely nobody to turn to ⁓ for personal guidance.

Man, think about that, right? ⁓ And ⁓ you know, those people are nobody to turn to ⁓ for personal guidance. That might not even be true, but that's the experience that these boys have. So if your son is trapped in this basement scrolling through, you know, feeds that you don't think are good for him, you're

default instinct might be to come in as an authoritarian enforcer. Just shut it down, right? You know, we're we're gonna block these websites or we're gonna block these YouTube ⁓ sites and stuff like that. Now and that is ⁓ probably counterproductive. ⁓ It

It is important to give your boy the proper ⁓ skill, critical thinking skills necessary to be able to encounter this kind of content ⁓ and ⁓ filter out what is useful and discard what is not useful.

Shaun Dawson (00:15:31)
⁓ as we've learned from our guests, that kind of authoritarian technique backfires completely. It just introduces another aggressive barbarian into the room. You it's gonna trigger his defensive armoring, it's going to prove to him that the world really is as hostile ⁓ as the YouTube the guys in the YouTube videos claim. So, what do you do?

⁓ you need to offer a more compelling and high definition version of masculinity inside your own house. You don't argue with the screen, you compete with it. And the nice thing about it ⁓ is ⁓ you have the advantage. You can sit down with your son, you can ⁓ ask him, ⁓ you know, kind of reporter questions, curiosity, be curious about it. Ask him, you know, use the template.

That we've talked about ⁓ in our episodes. What about this video resonated with you? What do you think the guy gets right about how hard it is to be a young man today? What do you think might be wrong? How would you test these propositions out in the real world? And if you listen without immediately issuing a verdict, which is hard to do.

You're going to lower that drawbridge. You're going to gain ⁓ this kind of relational equity. You're treating ⁓ him like a fully functional thinking person. And you can then point out what's good and what's a grift. You can say to him, look, I I see your drive. I see your competitiveness. I see your desire to be a protector and a leader. ⁓ those are phenomenal strengths. But

Beware ⁓ that these online figures are running kind of a financial hustle and they're designed to profit off of isolation. And so a lot of what will end up happening here ⁓ is ⁓ it's empty calories. It feels good, but it actually doesn't help. You want to give his masculine energy a purposeful and physical outlet.

Shaun Dawson (00:17:41)
productive outlet. You take outside, build something together, get involved and real work, hard work. And it doesn't even necessarily have to be physical work. It can be intellectual work. You know, ⁓

But show him that an excellent man doesn't hide behind an online persona. He's there physically. He shows up. He takes ownership of his thoughts, ⁓ ownership of his outcomes. And he uses strength to serve his family and his community, as opposed to making things worse, which is the way a lot of these kind of black pilled ⁓

Shaun Dawson (00:18:27)
figures ⁓ end up putting things. we gotta burn it all down. Well burning it all down is making things worse. ⁓ And ⁓ you know, the thought is, well we'll we'll replace it with something better. Yeah, maybe you will. But the world doesn't have a whole lot ⁓ of examples where that's been the case. And it certainly isn't

isn't he hasn't ever been the case without it being really, really intentional of exactly what you're gonna replace it with, an exact, really positive vision ⁓ of ⁓ of what you want to do. Because the the tr I I I get having the destructive reflex. ⁓ but you know it it's not

Being destructive for destruction's sake is only letting the bad guys win. It's it's okay to tear something down if what you plan to replace it with ⁓ is is much better, but you better think that through.

Shaun Dawson (00:19:33)
You that that's gonna bring us to the close of this QA session, but one of the things that occurs to me here is that you don't need to have every clean answer figured out right now, today. You just have to be willing to stay with the room and sit in the discomfort, face what you'd rather avoid, and do the hard internal work and do it in front of your boy. ⁓ He that is the lesson. You know your boy doesn't need you to be the expert. He needs you to show him how ⁓

To thrive. ⁓ And, ⁓ you know, part of that ⁓ is modeling the struggle. And they're learning how to handle fear and power and connection by watching what you do. So until next time, keep up the work. Stay curious about your own experience so that you can lead his experience. And remember that.

They're watching everything you do, man. And that is a privilege and it and it is a huge responsibility. My name is Sean Dawson, and this is Raising Men. And you ⁓ are a great parent.