hello today I'm joined by Sean Harvey

co host of The Kids Are Asleep

a hilarious and heartfelt podcast that he hosts

with his unbelievably amazing wife Shannon

together they dive into the beautiful chaos of marriage

and parenting and they share real conversations

that every mom and dad can relate to

I know I know I do

what I love about Sean is how he brings humor

and levity to the hardest parts of family life

all while modeling what it means to show up

as a husband and a dad in the modern world

in this conversation we'll talk about the messy

meaningful side of fatherhood

how to stay connected in marriage

laugh through the chaos

and raise kids with authenticity and Grace

Sean thanks so much

and welcome to raising men

uh so we

we were it was started during Covid

like so many

maybe 2020 two

I don't even it doesn't matter

but when I looked at back at my

in my iPhone at my notes the first note was in 2,020

and it was like storm

because I had previously done a podcast for five years

uh and so I already had an engineer

and I already had the equipment

get Shannon comfortable on the microphone

because she's used to doing social media

looking into the camera and kind of doing her thing

but this is a completely different monster

we recorded a couple of little practice things

but yeah it was just

it was and it

and honestly it

it came out of sitting around

having drinks when the kids were asleep

yeah well

you guys have I mean

this unbelievably tremendous energy

I I get the sense

for example that if you're out in public

you

guys would just be constantly giving each other shit

we have each other's backs

yeah yeah

I you know

I had a relationship like that in my single days but

but she and I didn't have that foundation

would not consider their husband or wife to be like

their best friend you know

and the the

you some of them are just partners

you know like it's

I don't say just partners

but there are

some marriages are considered more partnerships

and to some extent there's a real

I don't know brownie

and motion towards

the transactional aspect of the relationship

just kind of getting the kids to

um I think in the past few years

our kids are 10 and 8

and I feel like as they've gotten to be like

around this age I kind of figure out like

for instance

we both can't chirp at them at the same time

they're like convicts in a prison and you're the prison

guards

and you have your whole life that you have to go do

and all of that stuff

and the prisoners have nothing to do

but to sit around and figure out how to mess with you

we have two kids

I have a six year old boy and a three year old girl

but you're kind of playing Russian roulette there

I think the boys would be a more of a problem early

though

yeah they're

they're very intense

they get really intense when they become teenagers

right and well

and they I think

you know in their little social circles

the entire thing is about how to undercut people

you know you're playing

you're playing against Michael Jordan

how do you balance being fully present for your kids

while also making time for yourself and

and that's that's the plural you

you like there's that uncomfortable moment where

um well

I think the first thing that you learn when your parent

when your kids get to an age

where you have the freedom to do this

which you know

I feel like I got to about last year is you

you gotta you either gotta wake up before them

or go to bed after them you need

you need some time while they're sleeping

to get stuff done so

whether it's waking up early and going to the gym

and then coming home and you know

getting them to school whether

it's that or whether it's

you know on the weekends when they

you know they go to bed 9

9 10:00 it's like I I'm

you know I need at least an hour

we need to watch a show we need to decompress

you know we need to do something

we we

we are not like we have friends that are busy bodies

watch whatever you know

viral stupidness is on or like a good drama

a good thriller

you gotta make some time without them to figure out who

what you guys are like what the marriage is

what your what your roles are

what your relationship is gonna be

hang out with my friends or something like it's

it's it's a

it's a pretty

and she says the same thing that her friends

they go you guys like

that's just how we've structured our lives

and it's that's how it works for us

yeah you don't wanna

I don't ever wanna like

we're rarely ever caught by surprise

you know like there's

if something happens in my life or in

or in her life separately

you know

we usually she's gonna be the first person I call

you know and and and vice versa

you know and especially because we have the show

the only exception to that is that

you know if if something funny happens

like the other day she saw a car accident right

so she starts telling me and I go save it for

the show so we can get those kind of authentic moments

so there are some things that we hold

but only for the show but besides that

you know the day to day stuff

you know we're always

we're in constant communication

and people of our circumstance we she

she's worked from home

almost the whole time we've been together

so ever since like 2,016 um

we have been at in the house together most of the day

except for like

when we go out and run errands or go to the gym

once you once you figure that out

then it's then it's

it's a we spend a lot of time together and it's

it works for us it wouldn't work for everybody

you know as it's growing out

you're like oh man

I hate this I don't think I can do it

and then now you had a rather unorthodox childhood

yeah you're right

it's it's

you know

I've tried to manicure this a little bit better

but the the

one of the rules in my house is if my wife likes it

I love it

yes there are

there are certain things that I'm willing

I'm like you know

my fashion I

you know once again

I've Learned who do I want to think I look good

is it my male friends is it women I've never met before

or is it the person that I live with

which is something that you and I have in common

uh that

you know it's

that's funny you

that's a good that's a really in depth good question

um so my father um

was a dream chaser right

my father was lead guitar for a band called

Toots and the Maytals

they've won two Grammys over the years

you know he's performed on late night television

you know he's

he's performed all over the world

I got to see uh

what mastery look like

but I also got to experience the sacrifices that

that entails

my earliest memories he wasn't around right

he was around in terms of

he was never incommunicado

like I could always get a hold of my dad

um I

you know when he was around

I would spend time with him

but he was traveling 200 days out of the year

and so I lived with my mom

and they broke up pretty shortly after I was uh born

sitting there and realizing like

if I'm going to chase this

I'm going to have to be out all the time

I'm gonna have to be in in the clubs and in the bars

and I'm gonna have to be promoting myself

and I'm gonna have to do that

that I was gonna be available for my kids and my wife

and that

I wasn't just gonna be a journeyman on the road

and they'd have to call me and Facetime me

and you know

that was

the

fame and fortune is not necessarily the No. 1 thing

for me I would rather be there for my family

and then figure out the rest

with that being the the the foundation

yeah my dad uh

was a world class sports caster

uh yeah

in Dallas and I mean

at the time you know he

he did play by play for the the

the Cowboys was Troy Aikman

our waiter came to our table and said

or when uh

when it was time to pay our waiter came over and said

ah so I guess

you know those guys like that's pretty cool

but he would go to work at 2 o'clock in the afternoon

he'd come home at 2 o'clock in the morning

his primary focus

he was sort of semi retired at the time

and he was doing entertainment reporting

and um

sunny Bono died

had been the mayor of Palm Springs

he lived there and it was a big deal in

in Palm Springs so

my dad ended up in the situation of doing play by play

for the funeral essentially

and it was like watching grass grow

it was it

it was just so you know

Cher came in on a private jet and

you know the door opened and then five minutes later

she walked down and I mean

it was just every mind numbing

slow detail of every little thing that happened

and they were they were watching it live

and he sat there for eight hours

and it took him 50 years right

and it it took

it cost him and it cost us as a family

but it also had rewards associated with

a million shows when my dad was

you know when I was much younger

I did not know who my dad was until I was about 16

I just moved to Portland I came from Toronto we

I grew up in Toronto we

we moved my mom met a man

married him he lived in Portland

so we moved out to Portland

um and

and I believe 99 and I remember going to school

and I'm talking to these random kids it's

you know it's

I go to Lincoln High School

and I look at him and I'm like

how the how would you possibly know who my dad is

making folks in in Toronto

so whenever he would do shows

it was mostly a Caribbean audience right

so I so he comes to Portland on tour

and he would come about twice a year to Portland

because it was a big market for them

and lo and behold

and he would like play the guitar with his teeth

and he'd play it behind his back

and he'd play you know

he'd play it behind his head and

and I got to understand like oh

this is why he sits around

he practices like every day

one and two in the morning

and you'll just hear the guitar

you know he's got his headphones in and he's still

the 10,000 hours and it really

for some people it's a 10 million hours

but that's not like it's not like when the 10,000 hours

being able to experience your dad

and understanding what that excellence requires

it's not a cost that you would be willing to pay

our our dads um

grew up in a time where I feel like

it is so different than when they grew

up you know

when they grew up

when our dads and our granddads grew up

it was like provide don't complain um

and you know

be good at something and then and

and don't don't complain

you know don't talk too much

you know and so I do think that no we

we were all kind of

none of us really knew what our dads were going through

um a family was a noble sacrifice for

that comes first and I feel like uh

part of me watching that and seeing that and uh

I just kind of figured you know what

with the technology the way it is today

with all the different accesses that we have to

monetization and

and expression and social media

I just thought you know what

let me try to find a balance

and maybe that can be the next thing is

you know dads that kind of figure out

you know parents that

that figure out how to have a balance between

you know success and money and

and all that comes with that

but then also you know

like not

having a generation of young kids

that are running around

and then grab Dad's credit card

or grab Mom's debit card and and

it was it was

it might as well have been science fiction

back to the future of what the future was gonna be

and those things come with opportunities

and understanding that that it's

it's a difficult journey to go on

is to find a balance between

you know how do you

how do you nurture how do you nurture

but then also you know

how do you navigate this

this new stuff because

except for the fact that whenever something breaks

somehow they can't figure out turn it off and on

like dude

I just was having the time of my life downstairs

you know

it seems like you were really fortunate to have a great

stepfather

a a really

really significant milestone in anybody's life

how how did you handle that

and not have bad news so I

I answered the you know

she told me obviously

and then I first

I just lay there for a bit and kind of processed

and then of course yeah

your first you

you know like they weren't up yet

so I just went downstairs

I kind of you know got something to drink

thinking to myself like

how long can I go you know

like how long should I let them'cause like

right now their life is totally normal

I got a text from somebody else

and as the text messages started coming in

then I said alright

I gotta I gotta rip the Band Aid

you know

cause I don't want them to find out any other way

and so uh

I just I brought them

you know

I sat them on the couch and I just told them that their

uh their grandpa passed away

and they both started crying

and it was like a it definitely was a first

you know that was

it's their first experience with death

of a close family member of a family member maybe

period and it was

I definitely was conscious of the fact that I was like

oh my life just changed

because obviously

he's just a little more aware he's ten and so you know

and his his younger brother you know

he's he's kind of like more trying to find his emotions

I feel like

of um when I I believe my grandma passed away

I believe I was 5

so my mom is one of 14

so there's a picture with my granddad

and I am in the picture sticking my tongue out

it's not real you don't know how to process

when I was 11 and it was very similar

because my older son had a game the next day

and I remember I had a basketball game the next day

when he passed away and I remember both times

you know like my my mom said you know

he'd want you to play and then my mom told my

so she was like go out there and have a you know

and that's and that's just so that was me and him

we have this like weird experience it but also

you know

and it'd be it'd be fine if he said I'm not gonna play

I uh

I went to work

softball team

and I kind of knew I had no business being there

like who goes to work the day after their parent dies

but that's what I need I like

I needed to have some kind of normalcy

I needed to like

that's what I needed to do

in order to process this situation

I had to absolutely pounding on me because

you know you signed up for the game

and you said that you would be there

Baba and all this stuff

and I'm just thinking to myself this poor bastard

you know what my mom died last night

and my cubicle mate said yeah

and I didn't talk to him for the rest of the day

he just he just avoided me

are so strong to me

I remember them so vividly about No. 1

feeling like

it just felt like the thing I needed to do in this

empathy for this guy because man

he's gonna remember this forever

I I love that about you I think if you lived here

we would be fast friends

because I love that you could see

that's how I process things

very much through humor

you know what I mean

like the the pit that's about to be in his stomach

I've just kind of Learned like

you know laugh laughing things you know

don't be a I'm not silly

I'm an adult you know

I'm not a silly person

but I can be very silly and I can

I can kind of laugh off most things

you know because I don't know

that's just how I deal with things

and

and that she I think I got that from her

you're somehow able to joke about the serious thing

that helps it retain its seriousness

it felt so poignant it was because you shared it

and you were kind of joking about the whole situation

and you shared the fact that

you had this wonderful interaction with him

after he it was almost like in retrospect

he understood that these were his final days

and so he had a renewed vigor and renewed energy

and you had this final interaction with him

that gave you peace after he was gone

you managed that tension between the levity

and the seriousness so well in

with that story I suspect

I suspect that Charlie would be really proud

you know it's funny

we didn't like have like a really talky

talky relationship like we didn't talk a lot

we didn't like ever like shoot the shit

but but he very much was like a old

you know I mean

he was 80 86

85 when he passed away he was

I think he would have I

I feel like so I

I wrote my speech that I gave at his funeral

the day before

I kind of was spitballing some stuff and my mom told me

she said look

they asked me to speak I

I can't do it so could you speak for me

and I said yeah

of course once again milestone right

it's like oh god

now this is the first time

my mom is now asking me to be the strong one

about this stuff when you're in your 20s

you know you don't think about

you know you think oh

I can drink alcohol now now I'm a man

you know like

you know I can vote

I can

I don't know if you ever read the

there's the there's two books that I've read

there's the 48 Laws of power and The Art of seduction

I don't remember which book this is in

and he basically he couldn't

he commissions gets all this money and he's got nothing

so then he ends up calling a meeting

and he gets everybody the investors and the

the guy who's commissioned the home

he gets everybody involved

I do it the day before not because I'm lazy

but because I need pressure is my motivator

the day before the the funeral I

it just came to me and it was a weird

it's like a weird thing to like figure someone out

you know after they pass away

I'm writing the speech I realized like

this dude just wanted the best for everybody

you know what do you need to do

what's not done yet have you done this

have you done that

I suspect that Charlie would be really proud

he wouldn't have talked to me

you know like

but you know

but you you realize like no

he's just from a generation where this is

he's asking me about like my do this

do that you know

and it's and it's just like

that was so

sit down with a pen and paper

and then get to know somebody that just passed away

there's such a lesson there too

and it's a shame

I wonder how we cultivate that in our own kids

like I

I don't want that to happen

I don't want my boy to finally realize who I am

raising men is produced by Phil Hernandez

this episode was edited by Ralph Tolentino