it it goes back to the question I had

how do you train yourself to have that reaction

instead of the natural reaction

which is get out the door and like here

I'll find the shoe for you

now go yeah

so that feels faster

it feels faster to go do the thing for the kid

yes

but now you're signing up to do the thing for the kid

every every single time time

welcome back to raising men

today on the Raising Men podcast

we are joined by Jodie Hill

she's an author a speaker and a parenting sidekick

Jodi is the author of the best selling book

The Parent's Secret Superpower

and her message is simple and powerful

the words parents use to speak to their children

shape that the way that those children see themselves

and their future Jody welcome to raising men

thank you so much for having me on

I keep hearing about you and your name keeps popping up

and I'm like

this is a man whose mission I can get behind

so thanks for having me even though I am not a father

that is so kind um

but you do have boys I do have boys

so and it uh

I think that the challenges that uh

mothers face about raising men

are actually more relevant

and a lot more difficult uh

than the ones that men face

because I

at least have the experience of once having been a boy

and my wife does not

this is correct haha

so I'm a parent what is my secret superpower

your secret

secret superpower is something you already have

and I think that is where a lot of us

parents can miss it we think oh

I have to attend this course

I have to read all these books

I have to do all these things

like

what do I not have that I need to be a great parent

and what I talk about is

it's something that you already have

and it's your words your words are the greatest tool

and the greatest asset

that you have to change the trajectory of your child's

life and that is what I help parents do

I help them realize the power

and actually how to use it

I love that are there

so give me a give me some examples of how

the everyday words that parents use

both positive and negative

shape the identity that our children carry

into adulthood yeah

well I think something really important to keep in mind

as we are on this journey called parenting

is that when you have a belief about yourself

what that does is that establishes your identity

and once you have an identity of who you think you are

that impacts how you show up in the world

so if I believe that I am not smart

I can't do hard things that I'm a problem child

that I'm too much

when I walk into a room or I face a circumstance

how in the world do you think I'm gonna show up

am I gonna show up there being like

I'm gonna figure this out

there's something challenging here

but I know I can work hard enough to figure it out

or I believe that I can do hard things like

or are you gonna walk in just being like

I'm the dummy I'm not important

nobody sees me nobody cares right

so that impacts how you show up in life

which impacts where your life takes you and as parents

we are the biggest influence in our child's life

we are the one that when they come out of the womb

they're crying and they're screaming

and we are the one that nurtures them

we are the first ones to speak to them

to take care of their survival needs

and so we have this beautiful opportunity

starting at birth all the way through their 18+ years

to impact our children and so what I love okay

there's this scientist named Masaru Emoto

have you heard of him yes

I have my wife okay

literally three weeks ago

four weeks ago went to one of his events

oh gosh that would be epic okay

I have not done that

but I have heard of this man and for those of those

for those of you who are listening

who have not heard of him

so he is the scientist

and he did this experiment where he took dirty

polluted water out of a river lake in Asia

and he separated it into two categories

so one subject test group

he spoke positive words intentions

thoughts

froze the water the other test group of this water

he spoke negative words

negative thoughts negative intentions

all the things froze it and then what he did is

he looked at the water crystals

frozen water crystals under a microscope

and the results were incredible

so okay I have to show you I've got private plug

no uh unashamed plug of my workbook

so I created a playbook for audiences

I'm actually gonna show you a picture

for those of you who can are watching this on YouTube

yeah okay

so check this out wow you have like the words amazing

Grace and you got this like beautiful thing

you have the word angel like beautiful signal right

or you know what I mean

and then you disgust me like look at that

it is just a blob of blobiness

for lack of a better word

and so you're looking at these water crystals

like another one is you fool

and it's just nothing compared to the beautiful

like crystals that are shown by positive words

intention and music right

okay so think about this

what is the percentage that our bodies are made of

it's like 60 65% yeah

and did you know that children's bodies

actually have a higher percentage of water

that's a fun fact so

if our words and intentions can impact

water in that way what are our words and intentions

doing on the physical bodies

of our children which also has a mental impact too

how you feel impacts your brain

what you think impacts your body right

it's all connected

and so I was I just got on this journey of like

how can I impact my kids

because our words are incredibly powerful

you know growing up I

you know my parents had us memorize Bible verses

and stuff like that and one of the one is like

the tongue has the power of life and death

and I always thought that oh yeah

you know watch what you say you've got life and death

but it's like what

if there actually is life and death

in the power of your tongue

and as we as science backs that up

it's like man we actually have power in our words

to impact the physical bodies of people

so I got on this journey where I was like okay

what can I do to speak positively to my children

ha ha ha well

and and our culture is becoming so much more course

uh I think

because of the impact of a lot more anonymized

communications

or a lot more arms length communications

you say things on Facebook that you

or people say things on Facebook that you would never

ever ever say face to face face to face hundred percent

um you'd be taking

you know you'd

you'd be putting yourself in physical danger

in a lot of cases uh huh

if you did that and you see

amongst people that spend a lot of time online

their person to person

face to face interactions also become more coarse

they say things to

they

they start to say those sorts of things in face to face

interactions or over text or something like that

that mimic the way that they interact online

and that is toxic yeah

and in exactly the same way

whether or not um

there's an actual physical impact

the way that

that experiment you talked about demonstrates

or whether the impact is purely intellectual

or an emotional yeah

it's the same thing yeah

I I

I'm reminded of um

a story when I lived in Chicago

I met a young man he was uh

26 years old

he lived in kind of the bad part of Chicago

and he had started a hair salon

he was a former gang member

wow and was um

you know in that kind of life

and he decided to get out of it

and he decided to start a hair salon

in the bottom floor of this apartment building

and it was tremendously successful

the place was packed he was renting out uh

all

I think eight of his bays inside the salon

the store next door was uh

was vacant and he was in negotiations

to expand into that part of the store as well wow

start a spa in that part alright

he was alright crushing it

and one day

an inspector from the city of Chicago showed up

and walked in his door and said where's your permit

he said I I don't have a permit he says OK

I'm gonna have to shut you down till you get a permit

and so this guy was like oh well

you know the man came and shut me down and you know

I guess I'll do something else

he built this business over two years

he built this thriving business now

if that happened to you or that happened to me

we would feel indignant we would feel well

this is unfair and I'm gonna go you know

I'm gonna go

march down to City Hall and get this resolved

and you know we would

feel that

that's not the way that life is supposed to be yeah

but this guy his whole sense was like yeah

I mean

eventually the lawn mower comes to

cut the tallest blades of grass okay

and so he was talking to his landlord

and his landlord didn't want to lose the revenue

from the hair salon and so and so he's like yeah

I'm not gonna be able to pay rent anymore

and the landlord's like well

you have a lease you have to pay rent

and what is this garbage about the city come coming

and shutting you down he says well

I don't have a permit he goes

what's it take to get a permit guys

like I don't know

I don't know and so

the landlord starts making phone calls

and doing all the stuff

he has the reaction we would have hmm yeah

and he finds out that to get a permit

you have to go to City Hall

you have to stand in line

in this one particular line

you have to give them a money order for $80

and you get a permit right then and there

you could be open tomorrow

wow and so the landlord figures this out

he calls the kid back and he says listen

here's what you have to do

go to the 7 11 get a money order

do this gives him the whole checklist

sends him to city Hall and he was

and he did that stuff had the permit

put it up on his wall and he was open the next day

but the kid if he hadn't had that interaction

if he hadn't had somebody in his life

which by the way

before this moment

he had nobody in his life who would tell him

this is unjust go make it right

wow but he did in this particular case

and in fact it was

sort of

the landlord's selfish interest that made him do that

yeah but he did it

and so the kid was back up and running

and his business was you know

again thriving

he was able to expand into the

into the next door

and he didn't have to go back to the life

wow and it's just purely

and this is you know

when people talk about privilege

right and

you know people who grew up in wealthier households

obviously have a lot more privilege

the nature of that privilege

some of it is wealth

some of it is you get to graduate college without

college without

without student debt those sorts of things

those are real and impactful

but the vast majority of it is

what you're talking about is the state of mind yeah

that gets set up by a lifetime of a

of framing your world as

you are worthy of life's challenges

and you are worthy of the benefits that occur to you

personally as a result of meeting those challenges

right and succeeding in the world

yeah and that

if there is one job that we have in raising men

especially

that's it to communicate and convey that state of mind

when my son turns 18

if he has that state of mind and he expects to win

and he believes himself worthy of winning

I've succeeded and if he doesn't

I failed it's that simple

yeah and what is so beautiful as parents as

just as the landlord was to this guy

we get to be that to our kids right

we get to show them what is possible

we get to help them believe that hey

when you get in a situation that's

you feel stuck it's not the end

there's resources

and ways to figure out how to get unstuck

ask for help you can do this

don't just accept it right

and so we get to shape that in our children

and it just starts as they're small

all the way through 18 and even beyond

so let me ask you this

for me one of the things I really

really struggle with is making these sorts of

of comments reflexive oftentimes

my son comes to me and he asks me

you know can I do X

y and Z and my reflex is to say no right

no that's a pain for me

I have to now

do all this stuff in order to enable you to do this

or whatever and oftentimes

my reflex is to do the thing on your don't list

and we'll get to the do and don't list here in a minute

but how do I cultivate the reflex inside myself

to make sure that I'm doing the positive stuff

as opposed to the negative stuff right

I it just takes practice

and you know

I think a really great example of like

we do the things that we don't wanna do is like

for example you know

our child comes home

and we're looking over their paperwork right

yeah and we see that they got a B+

and so we're looking over their answers

and what do you immediately wanna go to

to like problem solve and troubleshoot

you wanna go to the things that they did wrong right

and so it's like oh

you didn't do this you didn't do that

why did you get that wrong right

and so it's a practice of retraining

because what gets attention gets repeated right

and so what I wanna do is

when I'm going through their school work

I'm like wow

look at all those answers that you got right

I can see your work here on the side

and I'm so proud of you for taking

the time to work that out

and figure that out oh

let's look at this one that you didn't get right

do you see what happened here

like what can you do better

and there's no shame there's no judgment

it's just like walking through it with them

and that takes practice because

most parents

want their children to succeed and get better right

and so the easiest way that we think we can do that is

point out everything that they're doing wrong

so they can fix and change those things and get better

like that's the natural default

right is point out the wrong things

and my encouragement to all parents who like

we feel like that's their default

like the children does a chore

they make their bed

and we come in and the first thing we wanna do is like

critique what they've done like all right

you need to pull this corner a little bit tighter

you missed this on the floor

is to stop and pause and be like

what can I say first

that encourages them and builds them up so it's like

wow you did such a good job

pulling those sheets really well

and getting all your stuffies on the bed alright

so next time let's work on

throwing your dirty underwear away

in the laundry basket that you just left on your bed

you know or hey

you did a really good job

like sweeping under the table there and the chairs

I'm so proud of you thanks for your hard work

I see here under the kitchen ledge

that you actually missed a couple spots

can you grab the broom and go back and get that

and that does a few things one

they're like yes

I did a good job here

and I'm not a constant failure to mom or to dad

and then two what that does and I just lost it oh two

what that does is

it shows them that you are a safe place to fail yeah

they're not gonna get shamed

they're not gonna get punished

they're not gonna get you know

reamed out for making mistakes

because it to be human is to make mistakes

and mistakes are actually our greatest

learning opportunities but if our children

don't feel like they can make mistakes around us

and that we are constantly judging them

and going to shame them and rub it back in their face

and oh here you do it again

you did a really crappy job scooping the litter

like

how is that gonna motivate them to change or be better

or try harder

like it's not it's literally going to squash them down

yeah so that is a great practice

is when you see something that you want to speak to

that could be a little bit better

pause and be like what can I affirm first

before I offer that correction out of a kind heart

and then affirm them again on the end

you know it's like the compliment sandwich right yeah

you know I

I've accumulated a bunch of principles through the

the process of of

of this whole project I'm accumulating principles

and I'll ask you for one at the end

I'll warn you that I'm gonna do that

you're the only person who's ever gotten a warning

by the way

but

but one of the principles that I've uncovered in

in this process is that excellence is failure

hmm explain more

so the only way to excel is to do something

to identify the ways in which you miss the target

and then improve those things yeah

and you never actually succeed

you just fail a little bit less

it's an asymptotic relationship towards going from

from large failures to small failures yeah

so you know

you're shooting at a target

and at first it's hard to even hit the whole target

and then gradually

you get closer and closer and closer to that bullseye

to the point where people

at the very elite level of the game

it's very unusual for them to hit anywhere

but the bullseye right

but how many times did they not hit the bullseye

and lead up to that way

more than the number of times they hit the bullseye

and they still they still I

I I remember watching Tiger Woods play golf one time

and he was having a terrible round

and so afterwards he goes to the

he goes to the uh

the driving range

and he is just visibly angry with himself

and he's talking to to his caddy

and he's hitting the ball

and he's hitting the ball and he's hitting the ball

he's just so frustrated that he's playing so poorly

and he was hitting I don't know

a pitching wedge or something like that

to a flag 120 yards away and the balls

were all landing within four feet of each other

now if I were to hit a golf ball

if I were to hit 10 golf balls

and they all landed within four feet of each other

I'd be elated yeah

and Tiger Woods was incensed with himself

and so that's what it takes to be excellent

you have to you have to embrace failure

you have to look at it as an opportunity to oh wow

this is my chance to to to correct something right

and

the only way you can cultivate that in your children

is to make them feel like successes

and then make them feel like that's the default thing

the default thing is that you succeed now

now that you know that you're a succeder

a winner now

let's look at all the places where we're not winning

as much as we should right yeah

like what else yes

hundred percent and I think it's so important too

I think a lot of parents in this generation

like

we love our children and we don't want them to fail

right yeah

and we don't like it when they're hurt

we don't like it when they're sad

so whenever we see any of that

we just want to swoop in and stop their tears

like stop crying it's okay

it's okay and

you know and then we just do the hard thing for them

but what that does is that actually robs them

of gaining the confidence that they need

through that challenge or through that mistake right

and you know

I love this story of I remember my daughter

it was time to go

like getting four kids dressed up out the door

I had four kids within the span of five years

so like Littles right yeah

and it's a win if we can get out the door

I mean I like to be early for everything

so I'm like we need to get out the door

my oldest daughter is learning how to tie her shoe

and she is like crying on the floor

so I have a few things going in my favor or against me

actually where I'm like

I need to get out the door

I have a crying I have a crying child

we just need to get our shoes tied

like this is the obstacle right now

so

what I wanted to do was come in and just tie her shoe

for her the done

no more tears you're okay

you're good you're good

let's go

but what that opportunity was

is an opportunity for them to learn

her to learn

and so push pause on all of the cast in my mind

I'm trying to get out the door

and I just sat next to her and I was like girlfriend

I see that you're really upset

about not being able to tie your shoe

she's like yes

and empathy that's so important right

anytime a kid is triggered sad

upset angry

frustrated like empathy goes so far

so like I would be frustrated too

I remember when I was learning how to tie my own shoes

I got frustrated

and then I said I know you can do this

you can do hard things

do you want me to show you how to do it again

like yes

so I showed her

I walked her through it and then I was like okay

now you try

and she did it and she was thrilled and she was pumped

and then like that just gave her such a confidence

and like this muscle like marker in her brain

like this marker in her brain were like

I know I can do this I've done this before

mom was there cheering me on

I've got this

and so then when she comes up on that obstacle again

then she can do it and the thing is

is when we try and step in and rob our children of that

it can communicate to them that mom doesn't think

or dad doesn't think that I'm capable of doing this

and so that is

one of the superpower strategies that I talk about

my book is like

don't rescue them from that challenge

don't rescue them from that mistake they made

like these are learning opportunities

big time and one of

one of the other things that was

understated in the story that you just told is

and it goes back to the question I had

how do you train yourself to have that reaction

instead of the natural reaction

which is get out the door and like here

I'll find the shoe for you

now go yeah

so and one of the things that you kind of

have to intellectually understand

is that that feels faster

it feels faster to go do the thing for the kid

yes

but now you're signing up to do the thing for the kid

every single time and so and

and by the way

you're not only signing up to do that thing for the kid

you're signing up to do a whole bunch of other things

for the kid because you've just communicated to them

that they're incapable

of doing things that are outside their comfort zone

as opposed to communicating that

they're more than capable of figuring stuff out

yes let's just sit down and do it

so the fact that you took the extra two minutes

when you were rushed to do to

to communicate that actually saved you time

not only in the long run but it also saved you if

if I had done that

if I had done the natural thing to my daughter

she would melt down yeah

I would have a difficult time getting her in the car

I'd probably have to pick her up and carry her

she would not be able to buckle her own seatbelt

so I'd have to do that for her

yep she would not be cooperative when we got to daycare

or wherever we were going

and so then it would be a night

it would cost me yes

way more than the 2 minutes

it would cost me

to sit down and get her to tie her own shoe

hundred percent and this is actually a great example

and I have something that I want to say about the end

result but why you're saying this

like this is such a great example of why

we get behavior that we start to label

like terrible twos okay

this is a perfect example yep

she's crying on the floor about her shoe

she's in this terrible two phase

and so we believe that we show up with that

we don't show up with

how we actually want to show up in parenting

with our children and so

we get the exact behavior

that we don't want in the first place

because we're believing it

that's another superpower strategy in my book

where it's like stand against those beliefs

because when you believe something

you're gonna start looking for it to prove yourself

right so like yep

my child is in the terrible twos

or as opposed to if you just were in that situation

saw it for what it was

then you're able to show up in a calm way

and you completely eradicate all of the fallout

that you just listed

and that's what makes me think that

what I was gonna say is and you're like

how do we do that in those moments

and I think it's a constant reminder of like

what is the end result that I want with my children

do I want children to be reliant on me for everything

or do I want to equip and empower them

and equipping and empowering them

it's slower and it's longer

I cannot tell you how

many times with each of my four children

I have sat on the floor with them

with a little dustpan and a broom

helping them learn how to do it

oh you missed a spot okay

hold this down like so painstakingly right

but now my kids are 7 through 12

when they spill something on the floor

they just go get it and clean it up

I'm like all of my work is paid off right

you gotta think about the end result

the long term goal not the in the moment

let's just get out the door and have her suffering

right yeah

yeah think

try and think long term yeah

okay so you've touched on something

which is a hobby horse of mine

and I'm really interested to talk about it

which is um

is there ever an appropriate use of shame

I don't think so no

I don't either

I think shame is like the lowest level of

you know so there's all of these

and let me say this real quick

there's all these levels of emotions

and there's frequencies to them

like scientifically tested right

shame is the very lowest and it's near death

I don't think shame is appropriate at any

wait right

what are you saying and yet it's such a reflex

yeah

it can be it's such a reflex

it's almost

that's what

that's one of the things that comes naturally and

and maybe it's a cultural thing because we were

brought up in a in a culture that

where that was

a much larger component than it is today um

but the reflex is why didn't you do that right

or you know

you

you should you need to eat your vegetables or you know

to make them feel shame and I think it's

it's almost like

you're a comedian telling a dirty joke

as opposed to a clean joke

and so it's way harder

to be a comedian that only tells clean jokes

but you but and and it's a little bit of a crutch

often times to fall down into vulgarity yeah

shame is maybe the vulgarity of parenting right

it it feels easy but it's in the long term it's

it detracts from any significant messaging right

and it and it's a problem and um yeah

yeah and so it

it's almost like that can be your touchstone

anytime you're trying to make your kid feel ashamed

you are doing it wrong yeah

and just like how does that work for you

do the George Costanza

I'm gonna do the opposite of every single one of my uh

every single one of my impulses because that impulse is

is backwards right

I mean how does shame work for you right

so say you said something to your child

and your wife comes up and Sean

why did you talk to him like that

what were you thinking like

does that encourage you to be a better dad

to be a better father like no

so why in the world would that be effective

on our children who don't even have like

the logical processing of their brain

because it's not even developed till they're like 21

yeah right

and so it's like how can I meet them in the space

where there was a mistake

maybe they even did something intentionally wrong

how can I meet them in the space

that encourages them to do better

and that's the job that we get as parents

to try and not shame and control

but offer love and I'm not saying like

they can do whatever they want and it's okay

that's not what I'm saying

please do not hear that but there is a

there is a safe way to help

guide and correct our children

instead of just heaping shame and condemnation on them

yeah

one of the lessons that I've had in

in and especially in this project

was just being a dad at all is

a lot of it is all about managing tensions

and so I'm always whenever I I see oh okay

that's one way to go what's the tension of that

and and so what is the tension here

is there a way to take it too far or you know

you're too positive or you're too

what can go wrong here

well I think if it's done

I think if it's done with right motivation

and right tools and skills

you can't do it wrong

if you have a motivation of control and manipulation

then the result like you put you get in

what you're gonna get out right

the results of that are not gonna be positive

and so I think I think there's a balance

so don't hear me say

we're just gonna build up our kids

you're the smartest kid in the room

you can do anything that you want well

honestly like

I don't think you're gonna be a rocket scientist

scientist

I don't think you're gonna be the NBA basketball right

but it's

it's putting a reality to that while encouraging them

like I know that I

I have seen you go after things

and when you work hard enough I have seen you excel

total truth yeah

gives them that encouragement

but not unrealistic unrealisticness

I don't think that's a word

but it is realism unrealism unrealistic expectations

whatever right um

so I think that's the balance

and because we don't want to create this culture

where kids just think

they're gonna be awesome at everything

and then when they step out of the house at 18

they fail at something and they're like

oh my gosh I thought I was smart

I thought I could do everything and what is happening

and they don't know how to recalibrate

and navigate that

because they've just been told their whole life

that they're amazing

which they're not because they're human okay

I have two specific situations

that I would love to get your advice on um

that are related to that the first one is

about a week ago I was talking to my son

he's 7 years old he's in first grade and he was being

he was worried

about getting into second grade and being bullied

he's got a little bit of a bully at his school

who gives him a hard time

and we're trying to figure out how to manage that

and so he was he was

worried about something that's gonna happen in a year

maybe and I said alright

well let's let's role play that I thought oh wow

I'm being a really smart dad right here

because we're gonna role play this situation

and so we role play that OK

I'm imagine I'm the bully um or sorry

you're the bully and I'm you

and so I'm walking into school

what do you say as the bully

and he goes he goes you you suck and I said okay

um why do I suck and he goes

because you failed at that spelling test

that one time in in first grade

so

he was talking about something that happened recently

and I said alright

back up for a minute what are you talking about

what are you talking about failing a spelling test

and he broke down into tears and

because he had failed at the spelling test

and so I was asking what happened

and it turned out that um

it was a word that he'd never seen before in his life

and he was asked to spell it in the spelling test

and he got wrong

and

um

I think the word was weird

and

he was and he didn't fail the spelling test he got one

so we got a 9 out of 10 on the spelling test

but it turns out and I didn't even know this

it turns out that he

in the entirety of his school career

had never missed a single spelling word in his life wow

alright

and he was in tears because he felt like a failure

buddy

and he said well

but but Everly's never gotten any questions wrong

like Everly's not you man

and I don't know if she's as good as you as math

I mean but whatever

it doesn't matter

you're not comparing yourself to Everly

you're comparing yourself to how well you can do

and by the way

the fact that you've only ever gotten one

spelling word wrong in your entire life is amazing

yes like

and I told my story about the time that I misspelled

said

and in first grade same

same sort of thing and

but he has

so I felt pretty good that I gave him the mental

state of feeling like

he should be succeeding on spelling tests

but that created so much on the other hand of it

the tension of that is

it created a ton of pressure for him yeah

where he felt when he got one question wrong

he felt like a failure yeah

so how do we manage that tension

right that's a great story

and I love how you shared with him like

hey dude I got a word spelled wrong too

like and I'm and look at who I am today right

hahaha

um so I think in that case

it's so important to not praise just the result

like hey

good job on your spelling test

you got all 10 right

but praise the effort right

like hey buddy

I see how every week

that you go over and review your spelling words

and I see how hard you study

and I'm so proud of the effort that you put in yeah

and praise the effort over the results right

cause I mean honestly

when it comes to school results are kind of crap anyway

like

how well did you memorize and regurgitate the facts

who cares does that mean that they've actually

you know like whatever

don't get me started but our kids hundred percent

especially in like a school environment

they can put so much focus on grades

and that if they get an a

then they equate that to like

to what I'm smart

I'm worthy I

and if they don't reach that yes

then what is the negative message that attaches to that

so our job as parents is we get to be like

hey I just want you trying your hardest

did you feel like you tried your hardest

yes great

I am proud of you

you know and leave it at that

okay so that brings me to my second um

parenting uh uh

situation that I would love to get your advice on um

my son loves basketball he loves Michael Jordan

he loves the Chicago Bulls

he was born in Chicago oh um

he's also

he never practices basketball outside of the

once a week we go to the

to the thing and to his little basketball practices

and he feels he wants to feel like

he's an amazing basketball player

and we had a situation last basketball practice

where he was playing kind of against another kid

who's really good at basketball

I was like okay

well why don't you see

and I kind of

set him up to engage in this little competition

as like let's see who can get more baskets

you or this other guy and

pretty soon he was you know

one point behind and then two points behind

and then three points

and then four points and then five points behind

the kid had you know

sunk six baskets before

before lake had had sunk even one

and it was totally and completely demoralizing for him

and he wanted to quit the game and

you know he's terrible and and I was like dude

you haven't been playing basketball all that long

like you're actually quite good

at basketball

for the amount of effort that you put into it

and he wasn't having it

and I legitimately

do not know how to deal with this situation

I'm very frustrated watching him practice and

you know he goofs off

and he sits down on the floor

and he doesn't listen to the coach

and

he does a bunch of stuff that he's not supposed to do

and yet he wants to be great at basketball

and he he

you know he

he doesn't just want to be great at basketball

he says he's great oh

I'm the greatest haha

and it's very difficult

very difficult for me to deal with because

and so I don't know

I'm just really interested in your feedback on that

I would ask you what makes it difficult for you to like

observe that and deal with it

I have a very difficult time

separating my own ego from his

performance and ability in sports I

I never got into sports until I was much later in life

and then I was really I was

I was comparatively really

really good at certain at volleyball

for example terrible at basketball

but I was really good at volleyball

for the amount of training I'd ever had

and I wish I wish

wish wish

that I gotten into volleyball when I was in 8th grade

and if I had been able to ignite that fire

when I was much younger

my life would have been so much different

and so much richer and in a in

in so much better in a lot of ways

and I want that for him and I also

I know I I and

and I have a very difficult time

keeping my ego out of it too

I mean deep down

I want him to be a good athlete because

because I I want that to reflect well on me

and I recognize that that's unhealthy

and I'm really trying to to tamp that down

but it's both things

well I applaud you for your openness

for your insight

your openness and your vulnerability in that

because I think that is so relatable

with so many parents we want our child

our children to excel in certain things

because it's something that we didn't do as a kid

or didn't get to do

or we think our life would have been better

if we had done this and it's also

we take it as a reflection on who we are as parents

right like

when my kids go into an environment

and they're acting a little crazy

like I am completely mortified

and so like their behavior

whether it be going a little crazy or like

not listening to the coach and goofing off

it's so easy to take that as a message about us

and that starts a belief in us right

which impacts how we show up right

yeah

so I just my encouragement to you

and other parents

like in that environment is that like

this is a journey that your child gets to be on

they get to learn and understand

if I'm not listening to the coach

and if I'm goofing off on the ground

the coach isn't gonna play me yeah

if I'm not practicing outside of this

learning environment I'm not gonna get better

and it's not forcing our kids to do that

it's like you say you wanna get better

so we're going outside right now at the basketball

it's like hey buddy

how do you think or okay

so the situation where he's like

super bummed about getting out shot right yeah

so later that evening when it's not in the moment

he's not sobbing or whatever

and he's calm

and you guys are snuggling in bed together

be like hey buddy

I how did you feel today

like during the shoot off or whatever

he's like I didn't feel good I'm like yeah

like tell me more about that

when he was getting more baskets than me like yeah

and it's like do you like

is that okay with you or do you want to get better

do you like what how are you feeling about basketball

he's like well

I want to get better okay

how do you think someone gets better

and don't just tell them how it is

like you get better if you practice

practice makes perfect right

it's the same thing you're

it's allowing your daughter to tie her own shoes

allowing her to figure out what the process

hundred percent yeah

so it's like how do you get better

well maybe practice yeah

practice does make better right

and this is what I tell my kids

whenever they're learning something new

and it's really hard at first

which for him he said he's kind of a natural

but I'm like

think of your brain as like two separate pieces

and I don't know how scientific this actually is

but it's a visual that helps my kids

I was like your brain is connected by little tissues

which it is and I was like

when you try something new

like one one strand tries to like

it's over the other side of the brain

and it's super hard right

that's the first time you're doing something

but the more you do it the easier

the strands can jump across from brain to brain

and it becomes easier and you become better at it

and that's what's going on in your brain

when you're trying something new

or you wanna get better at something

your brain has to practice that

it's just not automatically gonna get those you know

those links connecting it right

so I can be like

painting this visual for this child of like yeah

this is what it takes you're right

practice if you wanna practice at all buddy

I would love to go out with you and do it

and if you don't that's okay too

then they get the freedom to choose

they get to free the freedom

do I want to become better at basketball

I know it's gonna take practice and if it's a no

he doesn't wanna practice

and he just wants to show up and goof off

then he is gonna unfortunately

experience the natural consequences of that

where he's not gonna get played

or he's gonna get out shot

and then in those moments if that does happen

it's not a hmm I told you so

you should have practiced right

it's like oh man

I am so sorry that really stinks

is there anything you wanna do differently

yeah I think I wanna practice alright

I'm here for it when do you wanna do it

you know so again

it's creating a safe place for them to fail

they get to make their own choices

and our work as adults

as parents is the work that you are seeing in yourself

like I see this as connected to

who I'm perceiving myself to be

as a parent to my own success that I want for my kid

that I'm trying to put on them

and if we can keep that at bay

and let the kids make their choices

and experience those consequences

you will have a kid who is just so self aware

and you'll have a healthy relationship with your kid

instead of these dynamics that you see

especially in sports

where parents are just like crazy about their kids

and the kids don't even enjoy the sport anymore

because they feel all this pressure and

you know it's just a disaster

it's not worth it it's so difficult and

and it's like it's like as parents

we all feel you know

the thing is he's an enormous kid

uh you know

I'm I'm 6 5 and he's probably gonna be 6

7 or 6 8 amazing

oh my gosh

so and I mean

he could really go somewhere in sports

and I really want that for him

yeah I get that

but I can't

I just like it has to be his thing

yes and the only thing I can do is

give him the fertile soil

to cultivate the plants and

and you know

give you know

I can give him the seeds I can give him the water

I can give him the soil I can give him the fertilizer

but I can't plant the plants for him

I can't grow the plants for him

no I can only enable him to do it

yep and

and that's the only sustainable way to do it

but one of the things that you

that you said there

that I really want to call attention to is

you don't have to deal with the thing in the moment

yes you don't have to

I mean again

the reflex is to shame them

let's connect to their shame and oh

aren't

you ashamed at how poorly you play basketball today

because you didn't practice

that's the reflex you do not have to

you can do nothing but console your child in the moment

yeah

and then later on when we're all back in Sherlock Brain

we can say hey

what do you think about that

and then come up with a plan

hundred percent cause in that moment

everyone's kind of like reactive right yeah

you're having your own stuff come up

he's upset and you I hear your inclination is to shame

my inclination would be to fix it

hey buddy

I think we need to practice more

let's do that let's go out right now and fix it right

and so we're all like reactive right now

I know that one too right

right and so

I think it's so healthy

when everyone can just take a beat

and revisit later like

a child's brain literally needs to self regulate

before they can hear anything that you're saying

you know I think it's such a great example

like my kids they'll get hurt

and my youngest 7 year old

I'm still milking it for all it's worth

cause he'll get hurt and it's not a hurt at all

I mean it is

but he'll come to me like ah

and if it's a big hurt I'm like

oh my gosh what happened

like blah blah blah

blah blah

yeah is that helpful to them in that moment right

no it's not helpful to them

what do they they just want comfort and consoling

yeah and so I just hold them

I wanna know why

there's this big gash on their forehead

with blood dripping out but right now they just OK

maybe not that bad

but right now they just need mom's hug or dad's hug

right and so then when everything's calm down

I'm like what happened

I finally get the information that I need

same thing in those situations

like they are having their own big feelings

they're dysregulated

and I think the most important thing we can remember

as parents

across the whole day is

if there's a lot of interactions going on

a lot of um

upset and whatever take a pause

take a beat and then revisit it later

you guys think hey

how can we do that differently

how can we speak more kindly to our sister

instead of yelling at her

like what would we say

what could we say instead

cause in that moment they're not regulated enough

they cannot process that information

so yes

pause yeah

I wanna ask you what you know

what are the techniques are there anything

are there differences

in the techniques that you use

with your boys versus your girls

is there anything specific about raising boys

specifically that you might call attention to here

that's a really good question um

I think I think for the most part

a lot of parenting principles are the same right

like they're the same

you wouldn't treat boys differently than girls

so I would almost say no and yet

I think there's something that we get to do as parents

with our boys

that we just have to be even more intentional about

so like for example

we will see these behaviors that to us are not okay

so like we see this um

we see like this energy and competitiveness and like

like this so you're in an OK

so you're in an environment

say even school but you're not necessarily there

your child's school they've got a lot of energy

they've got a lot of competitiveness

and so what does that environment say

like this isn't allowed here

so we need to squelch that

and this tends to be characteristics

that you see more in boys right

the energy the whatever

and so

it's like this environment that does not fit here

so we're gonna stifle that

and what that does is that can then turn to aggression

they have been given this strength

they have been given this competitiveness right

and so when we like energy and all that stuff

like that is driving men

when you have like competitiveness

that's like determination in them right

so

you see these things that can look bad on the surface

and we want to shut it down

as opposed to like encouraging in that

and so if we just try and stifle it and shut it

down in my boys like that will turn into aggression

but if I can use the right words to encourage them

in the things that I'm seeing

then that can turn to leadership in them like

hey buddy

I see how you're trying to be really competitive

right now and like

I love this determination that I'm seeing within you

but right now this is not the environment for that

or this high energy that I'm seeing

like

if we need to go outside and run around and do that

totally cool but right now

we're at the dinner table

and we're gonna offer respect

and honor to what is going on here right

so it's just like

shaping them with our words that we encourage

those things that are easy to just like

cut off and stifle because we don't like it

they're it's not as calm as we see in our girls right

so just realizing that some of those things are

on the other hand I mean

connected with that is that

we have to also give them an outlet for those things

you can't just say oh

well this is not the time and then never have the time

yes right

and and so yeah

I think it's important to kind of recognize that

go ahead and schedule the thing that you know

will let them get that energy out and let them be boys

yeah don't let them sit in front of the TV all day

playing games video games like right

like shut that off get them outside running

get them you know

with friends hanging out exploring adventuring

you know wrestling on the trampoline

is what my 12 year old son loves to do

with his friends right

like and for me

I'm like be careful guys

don't hurt each other but that is what they need to do

yes be respectful of each other

but you know

other than that let them get their manly aggression out

yeah yeah

that's really that's really wise

now I wanna ask you one more thing about um

about what it

you know about being the mother of boys

and especially in your situation you

you

one of the things that motivated your entire journey

here um

my understanding is that um

that you didn't want your boys and your

your kids to be a statistic of divorce you

you found yourself in in a situation where

where you're getting divorced and um and

and you wanted to make sure that your

that your kids are still gonna thrive

yes and one of the ways that

that statistics of divorce thing manifests with boys

is that

before the divorce you had a default

masculine role model for your boys in your husband

and now you don't that default is gone

and any

even if you get remarried

that the your new husband

is not going to have the same relationship

and not necessarily going to be

able to provide that and certainly you as a mother

you can teach them things intellectually

you can yeah

explain to them how to be a good man

yeah but

they will not absorb those lessons in the same way

as they would if they were getting it modeled for them

yeah so how do you

how did you think about that

how do you manage that

and to what extent do you think you did a good job

and to what extent were things that you found out wow

I didn't do that right

yeah I'm definitely on this journey

so my sons are seven the oldest and the youngest

so I have a seven year old first grader son

about to turn eight in October

and then I have a twelve and a/2 year old son

and you know

he's in that preteen phase

so you know

he loves saying mom

I'm all I'm taller than you

I'm like dude

you are not taller than me yet

and then we literally measured and it was like

no head to head like he is right

I was like how did this happen

oh no

and he loves talking about his strength

and he loves talking about like

look at my stash mom

it's like what

what is happening where is my baby

um oh man

and he loves like

he is proud of the young man that he is becoming

you know and um

I was like dude

you have man legs like what is happening

um and it's so fun

and so um

I totally got off track with all of that

how do I oh yeah okay

so yes when me and their dad divorced

you know they no longer had a full time dad in the home

and then it's like

how do I fill that gap when they're here

and I think the biggest thing is

you know like you said

like I am a mom I'm a female and I can't

and so I can do my best like with me

I can't

like I can generate some masculinity within side of me

but that's not like God's given design

like that is not

how I'm designed to flourish with my children

and so that has been you know

an interesting journey as

it's

been a topic of conversation with other single moms

and to be clear like I am remarried

but my husband doesn't live here full time

because he lives in another state with his daughter

right wow

so even though I have this incredibly

like godly masculine healthy

masculine man who like

honors me and opens doors for me and loves my kids

like

they still don't have that consistency in the home

when the kids are here and so it's like

what does that look like and you're right

like it can

the best way that they learn is that it can be modeled

and so whenever we are so we have a

so I go to church and our church has like home groups

and so the home groups and those families

like they know the situation that I'm in

so the dads are more intentional

and they can be more intentional

they've even stepped in and some

there's this one situation in particular

where one of them stepped in

and he like

swooped in as his father figure and was like calling

like one of my kids up and it was like so powerful

it's like this is what my kids need

and so people who you know and trust

like giving them that voice of like hey

you can speak into my son

I actually invite it I actually encourage it

like please

or even like setting up times where like

you can have like someone who is very trustworthy

like take one of my sons out and hang out with them

and speak life into them and

you know when my husband comes into town

you know

he is so great at being intentional with my sons

and my daughters um

but just just being very intentional

and then just lots of prayer

it's like Lord

I realize that

this is something that I don't have in this home

and so

just help me to do my best to expose them to other men

godly men

and help them to see that and pick up those things

so still trying to figure it all out

yeah and there've been so many high profile

you know well publicized examples of

of a counter examples

of men who wanted to be part of children's lives

in unhealthy ways yeah

or you know

stories of abuse and that sort of thing and

and that that gets so much attention

and I think that culturally

what that means is that

our culture views men

who are interested in the lives of boys

with suspicion

yeah and yeah

and sure that's a real problem in this yeah

in in this domain

and by the way it is important to make sure

that you're not just dropping your kids off with some

yeah random guy who

you know who knows what the deal is like

and if you get a twinge of something

like your motherly instincts are going to

probably ferret that out yep

and but you can't throw the baby out with the bathwater

there there are so true

I don't know of a single decent man who

when presented with the opportunity to be a role model

for a 12 or 13 or 14 year old up and coming man

yeah wouldn't

absolutely embrace that right there 100%

I mean literally

you could call the CEO of the biggest company

where you live you can say listen

I've got this 12 year old son

he really looks up to you and admires you

would you mind taking him to lunch

and he would do it yeah

no questions asked absolutely

he would do it

it feeds everything that is good about masculinity

and men and everything

if you were to ask they would do it

and so I just think you just need to do that

you just need to be it

you need to realize that there is an aspect

you now are not gonna get all the nutrition

your sons are not gonna get all the nutrition they need

the the

the mental and emotional nutrition they need

you're going to have to supplement that with vitamins

yeah you first have to recognize that

and then you just have to be intentional about it

and give them those environments to do that

and it you know

might be sports it might be church groups

it might be all those things

the institutions that used to do that in our culture

and our society are now gone

you're gonna have to now

that's a bad thing

in the sense that you don't get it by default anymore

yeah but it's a good thing

in the sense that you get to customize the experience

so it's not a one size fits all anymore either

yeah so embrace that yeah

I would say for the moms who are hearing this

and they're like oh my gosh

there is no way that I would ever

let my son to hang out with another man

and I get that fear like you said

like there's a lot of negativity

but there's also so much good that can come from it

and um

I so like part

and this is a little bit off topic

but it's all about equipping our kids right

it's not just on you to screen

the men that may have interactions with your sons

it's like

I have empowered my kids from a very young age

that we have had the conversations of like

what are our body parts what's the real name

are these for sharing what do you do if this happens

what do you do if this happens

if you feel any sort of uncomfortableness

like what do you do you know

so like we have all those conversations and honestly

I guess this is really on topic because again

it is equipping our kids to be confident human beings

and to know how to make right choices

and right decisions so

the same thing happens in environments

where kids can get abused

is like what has to be going on in their mind

where they're so confused

and they don't feel like they have a voice

and they feel like they have to keep this secret

from their parent

because this close family friend said

this is a secret

and that mom and dad will be mad at you

and then they can think about truth and be like no

I know my parents aren't

they won't get mad at me for something

that's not my fault

I know my parents won't mad at me if I make a mistake

cause a lot of people think

a lot of kids can think that like um

that kind of abuse is their fault right

but if their parents have created such a beautiful

environment at home

where they can show up in their mistakes

and feel loved and accepted still

then the parents

are going to be that safe place for that child and

but hopefully it doesn't even get to that point

and the child is equipped to fully know how to say no

how to advocate for themselves

and to go in another direction

when something feels shaky and not right

because their parents have equipped them to do that

from day one yeah

I think that's perfectly stated

I always like to finish up these conversations

by asking everybody the same question

I warned you that I would do this um

but

if there is one principle that every parent listening

should consider when raising their boys

what should it be

I mean

I don't know if you would classify this as a principle

but what I would say is

just the words you speak dictate who your sons become

I think that's a perfect principle

so choose wisely

I think that's exactly right Jody

thank you so much for sharing your perspective

and reminding us that that

one of the most powerful tools that we have as parents

is something that we have every day

we have access to it all the time

and that's our words yeah

tell me a little bit more about what people can do

specifically to get more from you and

and to learn some of the techniques and and

and tactics that you talk about here

I am all about like simplicity

you know we as parents were busy

we got a lot going on right

and so my heart is like how can I help parents

like start this journey

or continue the journey that they have

of yielding their words in the most positive way

and also realizing hey

maybe what are some of the things that I'm

unintentionally not doing

that's hindering my children right

so for your podcast listeners

and I know you'll put this in the show notes

so it's podcast dot it's Jody hill.com

if you go there when you fill out your information

I will give your listeners

the first superpower

strategy that I have to raise confident

and capable kids

it'll be available in PDF and also audio format

so you can just listen to it

and I created a guide for parents

it's a simple quick guide

that's just my top confidence boosters and busters

so if you want to know right out of the bat

what are the things that I can do

to start boosting my child's confidence

and what are the things that I need to stop doing

that inhibits her confidence

this easy quick

I have a copy of it and it's really

really good it is for you

yeah so yes

that is the best place to find me

I'm on Instagram Jody Hill parenting

and yeah I would just say

those would be the two top places to go to find me

yep

and the links are absolutely in the show notes there

for everybody listening um

you can learn more about Jody's work

in those show notes and please um

check out her book The Parent's Secret Superpower

again those links are in the show notes

and as always thank you for listening to raising men

you are a great parent

raising men is produced by Phil Hernandez

this episode was edited by Ralph Tolentino